This letter appeared online today and it is something I have been thinking about but never got around to writing.
Clinton kept us safe eight years --with no torture
It's amazing. The Bush administration is finally telling the truth after eight years of lies, admitting it tortured and murdered prisoners -- and we are doing nothing about it. As a military veteran, I am disgusted, appalled and incensed that my government did this in my name.
Rove and Cheney are now trying to glorify torture as the method that kept America safe. What people need to remember is that the Clinton administration kept us safe for eight years after the World Trade Center bombing in 1993, yet Bush and Cheney allowed us to be attacked by their complete and utter incompetence and lack of anything resembling organized government during their first year in office.
The list of terrorist attacks that were discovered and thwarted by the Clinton administration is substantially larger than the list of supposed attacks stopped by Bush -- and no torture was involved. Just good old accurate intelligence.
If we don't investigate and prosecute those who break the law, it will happen again and again. The Republicans were on TV every chance they had when Clinton was president, saying, "Nobody is above the law."
Funny, I have not heard one of them utter those same words about Bush or Cheney.
Michael Davis
Salisbury
DelMarVa's Premier Source for News, Opinion, Analysis, and Human Interest Contact Publisher Joe Albero at alberobutzo@wmconnect.com or 410-430-5349
33 comments:
I agree.
Spot on. Nuf said.
They can torture those prisoners all they want. Just keep us safe!
The 9/11 plot was planned and organized during thoose 8 years that Clinton "kept us safe"
clinton used both waterboarding and outsourcing of torture to cooperating nations. we just don't here about it because he is a democrat
9:34,
What about the 9 months of Bush's administration before 9/11? Bush was told that bin Laden was up to something, and he just sat back on the info. When Clinton did try to kill bin Laden, you conservatives screamed that he was just trying to distract us from a "real" issue, sex with an intern. I guess you forgot that little detail.
Dear President Clinton,
Thank you for keeping us safe and especially not catching Bin Ladin when you had the chance.
Sincerely,
Your Democrat Supporters
Anonymous (of course) 9:44
It's a well known fact that Bin Laden was in the military's rifle sites and Clinton called it off...you must be one of those that need the medical marijuana to function or think!
Jim S.,
No, it's not a "well known fact". It's a right wing talking point, and a poor one at that.
10:36,
Why didn't Bush stop the attacks on 9/11 when he had the chance?
9:34,
Nope, you don't get to pass the buck. 9/11 happened on Bush's watch, while he did nothing to prevent it, even though he was fully warned. Richard Clarke testified to the fact that the Bush administration disregarded Al-Qaeda, and was looking for a way to invade Iraq, as early as January, 2001
Michael Davis is absolutely correct: Clinton kept us safe without torturing anyone. Because, after all, that is the American way. Iran tortures people. So does North Korea.
America doesn't torture people. If you want your country to torture people, there are plenty of petty despots and dictators around the world that are doing that. Would you like to live in their countries?
kept us safe? put down the bowl please below is a list of major teror attacksk leading up to 9-11
notice all the ones from 1993-2001?
September 11, 2001 - Terrorists hijack four U.S. commercial airliners taking off from various locations in the United States in a coordinated suicide attack. In separate attacks, two of the airliners crash into the twin towers of the World Trade Center in New York City, which catch fire and eventually collapse. A third airliner crashes into the Pentagon in Washington, DC, causing extensive damage. The fourth airliner, also believed to be heading towards Washington, DC, crashes outside Shanksville, PA., killing all 45 people on board. Casualty estimates from New York put the possible death toll close to 5,000, while as many as 200 people may have been lost at the Pentagon crash site.
Oct. 12, 2000 - A terrorist bomb damages the destroyer USS Cole in the port of Aden, Yemen, killing 17 sailors and injuring 39.
Aug. 7, 1998 - Terrorist bombs destroy the U.S. embassies in Nairobi, Kenya and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania. In Nairobi, 12 Americans are among the 291 killed, and over 5,000 are wounded, including 6 Americans. In Dar es Salaam, one U.S. citizen is wounded among the 10 killed and 77 injured.
In response, on August 20 the United States attacked targets in Afghanistan and Sudan with over 75 cruise missiles fired from Navy ships in the Arabian and Red seas. About 60 Tomahawk cruise missiles were fired from warships in the Arabian Sea. Most struck six separate targets in a camp near Khost, Afghanistan. Simultaneously, about 20 cruise missiles were fired from U.S. ships in the Red Sea striking a factory in Khartoum, Sudan, which was suspected of producing components for making chemical weapons.
June 21, 1998 - Rocket-propelled grenades explode near the U.S. embassy in Beirut.
July 27, 1996 - A pipe bomb explodes during the Olympic games in Atlanta, killing one person and wounding 111.
June 25, 1996 - A bomb aboard a fuel truck explodes outside a U.S. air force installation in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia. 19 U.S. military personnel are killed in the Khubar Towers housing facility, and 515 are wounded, including 240 Americans.
Nov. 13, 1995 - A car-bomb in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia kills seven people, five of them American military and civilian advisers for National Guard training. The "Tigers of the Gulf," "Islamist Movement for Change," and "Fighting Advocates of God" claim responsibility.
April 19, 1995 - A car bomb destroys the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, killing 168 people and wounding over 600.
February 1993 - A bomb in a van explodes in the underground parking garage in New York's World Trade Center, killing six people and wounding 1,042.
Dec. 21, 1988 - A bomb destroys Pan Am 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland. All 259 people aboard the Boeing 747 are killed including 189 Americans, as are 11 people on the ground.
Clinton:
1993
Feb. 26, New York City: bomb exploded in basement garage of World Trade Center, killing 6 and injuring at least 1,040 others. In 1995, militant Islamist Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman and 9 others were convicted of conspiracy charges, and in 1998, Ramzi Yousef, believed to have been the mastermind, was convicted of the bombing. Al-Qaeda involvement is suspected.
1995
April 19, Oklahoma City: car bomb exploded outside federal office building, collapsing wall and floors. 168 people were killed, including 19 children and 1 person who died in rescue effort. Over 220 buildings sustained damage. Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols later convicted in the antigovernment plot to avenge the Branch Davidian standoff in Waco, Tex., exactly 2 years earlier. (See Miscellaneous Disasters.)
Nov. 13, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: car bomb exploded at U.S. military headquarters, killing 5 U.S. military servicemen.
1996
June 25, Dhahran, Saudi Arabia: truck bomb exploded outside Khobar Towers military complex, killing 19 American servicemen and injuring hundreds of others. 13 Saudis and a Lebanese, all alleged members of Islamic militant group Hezbollah, were indicted on charges relating to the attack in June 2001.
1998
Aug. 7, Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania: truck bombs exploded almost simultaneously near 2 U.S. embassies, killing 224 (213 in Kenya and 11 in Tanzania) and injuring about 4,500. 4 men connected with al-Qaeda 2 of whom had received training at al-Qaeda camps inside Afghanistan, were convicted of the killings in May 2001 and later sentenced to life in prison. A federal grand jury had indicted 22 men in connection with the attacks, including Saudi dissident Osama bin Laden, who remained at large.
2000
Oct. 12, Aden, Yemen: U.S. Navy destroyer USS Cole heavily damaged when a small boat loaded with explosives blew up alongside it. 17 sailors killed. Linked to Osama bin Laden, or members of al-Qaeda terrorist network.
Good point, 11:09...
Now let's look at the incidences of terrorism AFTER 9/11, shall we?
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/White_House_Increase_in_terror_attacks_0110.html
BS, 1109 and 1118. You can't count attacks on foreign soil. How does the US have any control over foreign police operation? But if you DO want to go that far, you have to count 4000+ dead in Iraq and Afghanistan...on Bush's watch.
If you want to include Atlanta and Oklahoma (ie demostic terror by americans), you are going to have to include every single school/workplace shooting as well. Bush had plenty of those.
Chuck
That article talks about global terrorism. Its going to be higher since we are in the middle of a war. If we are talking Global lets talk about the people Sadam killed under the Clinton years.
No, 11:58. You don't get to define terrorism any way that you like.
Read the article. Terrorism is higher, globally, since 9/11 than it was prior to that date.
During the Clinton years rendition was a common practice. Only after Bush became president did the limp wristed liberals have a problem with it.
Chuck
You got a little off topic. The topic was Clinton kept us safe for eight years. He didn't. I couldn't give two hoots what happens in other countries, unless it happens to our citizens. The fact of the matter is Bush kept us safer than Clinton did. PERIOD
Give me a break!!! Clinton did NOT keep us "safe." His was a presidency of no action whatsover (except for what was going on under his desk in the oval office). Bush hadn't been sworn into office for a full 8 months yet on 9/11... so you cannot blame him for that plot which was obvious put into action a long time before it was actually executed. In fact, it was Clinton who is documented on VIDEO during his term in office mentioning Bin Laden by name as a serious threat to our nation. Yet, he did NOTHING. And if you honestly believe there was no torture or wrong doing going on during his presidency, ask Vince Foster and others like him if he would agree.
1:49,
Demonstrably false. Sorry, buddy, look at the data.
Chuck -you can't define terrorism *I can- and 2centz-we can't control what happens on foreign soil, except that Chuck is talking global terrorism- doubling up...nah nah and point to an article that shows two graphs and no back up as to what global terrorism actually happened or how they determine what counts just that "Yup! look at the colors, it's up!" Hilarious, here is something for you two. Because obviously the long list that only affected America and Americans provided by other posters is not enough to show Clinton didn't keep us safe here or abroad from terrorists, here's some light reading and it's source. The report is using 2007 numbers.
http://www.terrorisminfo.mipt.org/pdf/NCTC-2007-Report-on-Terrorism.pdf
• Of the 14,499 reported attacks, almost 43 percent—about 6,200—occurred in Iraq
where approximately 13,600 fatalities—60 percent of the worldwide total—were
reported for 2007.
• Violence against non-combatants in Africa, particularly related to attacks associated
with turmoil in or near Somalia, Kenya and Niger, rose 96 percent in 2007, totaling
835 attacks in comparison to approximately 425 attacks reported for 2006.
• Fighting in Afghanistan intensified during the past year, resulting in 1,127 attacks
and a 16 percent increase over the approximately 970 attacks reported for 2006.
• The number of reported attacks in 2007 fell in the Western Hemisphere by 42
percent, in Europe and Eurasia by 8 percent, and in South Asia by almost 7 percent.
PLEASE NOTE-How many attacks on America or Americans at home or abroad since 2001-zero, 0, zip, nada.
Demonstrably Bush kept us safer, and the nonlethal interrogation techniques used I don't consider torture. The 3 waterboarded terrorists were also not tortured. Go to the Middle East and ask them what constitutes torture, they will give you hands on demonstrations and maybe you'll get a souvenir to keep.
And, aside from the 1995 OKC bombing, committed by right-wing domestic terrorists, there weren't any attacks on America or Americans at home under Clinton's watch, either. (Because, remember, the '93 bombing of the WTC was in January of '93, so, according to right wing logic that must be George H. W. Bush's fault, right? I mean, if 9/11 is the responsibility of Clinton, right?)
So, your "point" is still irrelevant, and torturing prisoners hasn't made us any safer. In fact, according to the CIA, it has been a recruiting tool for Al-Qaeda... so, it has had the exact OPPOSITE effect that it was intended.
You also said:
"The 3 waterboarded terrorists were also not tortured"
According to International Law, and the treaties that we signed, they were. The definition of waterboarding as torture is no longer up for debate. In fact, it was referred to "water torture" until the euphemism "water boarding" was coined by the CIA in 2001.
I'm sorry, but you are DEMONSTRABLY wrong on every single point.
Youcan leave America anytime you want-now would be fine with me. It is ok to cut off Daniel Pearl's head and broadcast as much as they can. How many other heads rolled on the internet and we use some water and you are against it. You need to understand that these people will kill, torture you without hesitation. To keep Americans safe should be the top priority of our Gov't, some day we are going to pay for the faults of our current spend spend spend polices.
The OKC bombers traveled abroad and had middle eastern help. And that terrorist attack was a direct result of Janet Reno's incompetence. All the talk of Gitmo causing terrorism - What about Clintons FBI murdering Americans - That caused terrorism!
And torture? What about gassing innocent women and children and then burning down the building to cover up your crimes - like Reno's FBI and ATF did in Waco? Kid's bodies bent backwards from the gas. How come you aren't upset about what your government did THEN???? To AMERICANS?!?!
"You need to understand that these people will kill, torture you without hesitation."
They did it first? Sounds like grade school around here. Where did the adults go?
My Point, Chuck, is that Americans were safer under Bush at home and abroad, since that was the whole point of the letter. You brought up the whole "global terrorism" debate and link. Bush's interests shouldn't be keeping the whole world safe, his main job was to keep American lives safe. You have your opinions on torture, but water torture in treaties is not the same as "waterboarding." Simulated drowning experiences are not the same as ingesting large amounts of water to the point of distenstion, having your gut punched in by various means and then repeat several times-which is what the Japanese did to civilians and POWs during WWII. The only thing you like to do is throw out a half truths and hope people take it without bothering to do any research.
Chuck;
How can you be so ignorant of any related facts of what you are talking about? Internatinal law? Who cares, we are Americans, our government is supposed to protect us and OUR heads!!
Ok, who would give a hoot in hell?, The point about Cling on Clinton did or did not keep us safe does not matter, what really matters is that every time a terrorist attack happens and American Citizens are involved, there is a big hub bub, and yall keep bitching about it!!!!! Come on people, we have troops over seas fighting not for glory or honor but for you!!!! Ok, there was some tortures, but let me recall, what about our prisoners of war?, Vietnam, Korea, WWII, WWI, and so on. Why won't you all go back and sit on your couch and stuff your fat face, while our troops fight for you, and sit and a cold damp foxhole, low on food and ammo, and he or she is probably is praying that they wont be attacked, and come home and one piece. They are thinking about home, their families, sons, daughters, husbands, wives, moms, dads, brothers, sisters, friends, etc. So you democrat idiot liberal a$$ holes need to focus not on torture but on things of more importance, like taking care of your family, support OUR TROOPS, help the needy and homeless, or give to a cause. You may come back on this comment, but yall can just kiss my A$$! Proud to be a Republican!
If anyone... ANYONE, believes for a second that waterboarding or other "torture" did not occur when Clinton was President is a complete fool.
And I see deaths are still ocurring under Obamas watch. But lets just leave and put them all in Afghasitan... wonder how many will die there. I dont claim Bush was the best Pesident, but think he did a fine job protecting the US from domestic attacts. And beside the war really have not seen many foreign terroist attacts on civilialns in non war countries. It is what it is. Seems we will never become a non-partisin country. And thats a shame. And Obama sucks btw... hw is a non conrontational president. Not the kind I I want the leader of the armed services to be.
If he had guts he would bomb the site the N Korean missle kame from. But he just says "serious consequences" Wkat are they? Do you think they care? No... because we wont really do anything to hurt them.
Rant over. Going to bed
Young and old republicans lie,suck and have put us in the position our country is in today.
thanks for being liars and greedy you bastards.
i DON'T CONSIDER THROWING WATER IN ONE'S FACE, LINING UP ON A WALL OR GUARDED NAKED BY HUGE DOGS TORTURE. aNYONE WHO DOES NEEDS TO GROW A PAIR & SUPPORT OUR MILITARY ANY WAY THEY CAN. iF YOU DON'T BELIEVE, ASK THE FAMILIES OF nICK bERG & dANIEL PEARL.
Let's see, I've been called names, told to leave the country, and seen every justification for torture imaginable.
Sorry guys, but it's a straight fact that more Americans died due to terrorism under George Bush than Bill Clinton. I know it makes you angry to face the truth, but just look at the raw numbers.
But, you guys aren't being civil any longer, so I'm done here. It's a shame, too, because it's possible to disagree but not be disagreeable. I wish more of you would learn to understand that.
Chuck:
have any facts to ty and back up your lies???
hey you guys,don't forget the worst terrorist attack prior to 9-11,the bombing of the barracks in beruit lebanon that killed hundreds of american military personnel,but you right wingers seem you forget that one,oh thats right,the great ronald reagan was president then,oh and by the way he didn't do a damm thing about it.
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