A business next door to me is going through a renovation process, a large one at that. They have applied for permits and are investing quite a bit of money to help revitalize their part of Downtown Salisbury.
In the mean time, contractors have been somewhat a pain in my butt, destroying the gutter on the back of my building using their ladders to access the roof. Using my roof, (without my permission) to access the back of their building and since then we've experienced small leaks in that particular roof.
They installed a six inch gutter to the back of their building, very nice quality. HOWEVER, look closely at the angle of the gutter. At least 50% of it goes DOWNHILL to the left when it actually drains at the right end, (photo below).
Now, the day after it was installed we had some very heavy rain and all of a sudden my roof, (which had recently been sealed) started leaking. I called my contractor and they came right out. As soon as he got up there he called me from his cell phone and said, you better get up here immediately.I went outside, up the ladder and he started saying, do you see a problem here? I said, what are you talking about. He said, look closely at the new gutter, I did. I didn't see anything at first and then he said, Joe, this is brand new, why is the water leaking out of the BOTTOM of a bran new gutter system! (photo below)
Their contractor realized they had screwed up on the pitch of the gutter and rather than FIXING it, they actually drilled several holes in the bottom of the brand new gutter to release ALL the water onto my roof from their roof. UNBELIEVABLE, right? IF we hadn't gone up there to find the cause of our leak, we probably would have NEVER found the water coming out of their gutters. It gets even better. While it was raining there was NO water coming out of their brand new gutter system. Instead, it was all coming out of mine. (photo below)
As if ALL of this isn't bad enough, we confronted the contractor and the property owner and told them what had been done. The contractor actually came into my building and said, do you know who drilled the holes into our gutter? I replied, excuse me, are you implying WE had something to do with it! YOUR gutter is clearly hung wrong, the pitch goes backwards and the ONLY way to relieve YOUR problem is to drill holes into the gutter and release the water onto MY roof! And YOU want to suggest WE had something to do with it. Why in the hell would we want MORE water, (if not ALL) onto my roof! His reply, well, our guys didn't do it.Now get this. A day or so later the owner of the company came to me asking if they could drill into my brick and install fasteners for some flashing between the two buildings. He stated they would be using some kind of bolt to make it permanent. I immediately stated that WE had just done the same kind of flashing on the BACK of our buildings BEFORE the new gutters were installed to stop the water from getting in between our buildings, we used silicone, not fasteners. So I said, no, there's no way I would agree to allow holes being drilled into 120 year old brick. I suggested they do what we did. The owner of the company continued to try to push the matter so I told him I would contact an engineer but until then the answer is NO.
TODAY, I did much of my work from home and didn't get in until around 10:00 AM. I pulled into the parking lot, got out of my truck and came into my building, no noise.
As soon as I sat down I could feel the building shaking and a LOT of noise. I walked outside to see what was going on and it hit me, THEY'RE DRILLING INTO MY BRICK!
I was told they started at 7 AM, (how convenient) and as you can see from the above photos their flashing had already been completely installed.
Now, I have shown some pictures below that of similar, yet old holes showing what it can do to brick. Once they used a compact hammer drill to drill the holes, then they had to use a large hammer to drive the nails and expand the thingamabopper.
My question now is, since the brick is 120 years old, since I can see from other open areas how the brick cracked and expanded and since what they have done is covered by flashing, what can I expect to happen to the brick they drilled into?
Being that we are in a Historic District, being that MY building is NOT their building, how in the hell could this ever happen. In a phone conversation I told the owner of the company, are you crazy. You want to tell me you ASSUMED that from our original conversation you thought it was OK, yet you didn't get anything in writing and YOU think its just OK to start drilling into someones building! They are telling me they've done this HUNDREDS of times on Historic Buildings and its NOT a problem.
Well, the way I see it, it doesn't look like these expansion things are ANY different from ones in the past and I can see what has happened to the brick that is exposed.
Nothing has been done in good faith. I have had to call the City in numerous times since day one because they were using my roof to tear off the old roof next door and there was NO WAY they were going to put all that foot traffic and weight onto my roof. It's been quite the nightmare but if someone can help me understand what I can expect to happen to the brick over the next 20, 30, 40, or 50 years that would be great.
If you think I need a lawyer, let me know.
46 comments:
Without doubt, hire a lawyer.
You have to ask? What they have done to YOUR property was without your permission. At minimum they trespassed and I feel that destrcution of property is involved.
should have drilled into the mortar joints.. never into the brick...
I'm an experienced contractor who's wife is a structural engineer, so take my comments for what they are worth.
The brick is eventually going to crack apart due to moisture and age of brick, not necessary because of the drilling but from the expansion anchors and the way they are installed.
A termination bar should been epoxy bolted to the wall (sealing all penetrations), the flashing installed to the bar, membrane flashing extends over the metal flashing and then sealed and caulked.
When these contractors seal the top of that flashing, its going to break apart in a year due to weather.
here is a pretty good example of how it should be done.
http://www.gaf.com/Roofing/Commercial/Products/Single-Ply-Roofing/EverGuard-TPO-Single-Ply-Membranes/Documents/302_Wall_Curb_Flashing_with_Termination_Bar_Detail_-_PDF-116-1081-v1.pdf
wow, lawyered up and suing for damages to the building, thats insane! to touch someone elses building knowing you didn't give them permission.
Another one of the great joy's of being down town.
YOU CAN SEE THE OBVIOUS DAMAGE THEY CAUSED TO YOUR BRICKS. WHEN WATER GETS IN THERE IT WILL FREEZE, EXPAND AND CRUMBLE. GET A LAWYER.
PLEASE TELL US WHO THE CONTRACTOR IS
I've been involved in similar circumstances a few times and can give you some advice.
Get some written estimates for the repairs. Send them along with a letter outlining the situation as you did here and for the owner to contact you within 30 days to make payment or you will file a suit with the civil court. Be sure to include the photos. Make sure you photocopy a set of this packet for your records. Send to owner regular mail and then return receipt.
This step is a good thing to do because the court likes to see that you tried to settle before filing a suit.
If you do not hear from the owner or the terms are not to your satisfaction, then go online and find the correct form from the MD Courts website and fill it out (very easy to do). Send that along with the estimates, letter, photos, receipt from post office to the court.
You will then shortly get a court date. Alot of times the defendant comes back w/a motion to defend (I believe it's called) but I have never had them go through with it as I will then get a call from an attorney's office telling me to come and get the check from their office. I think what happens is the attorney ends up telling them they do not stand a chance in hell in winning so the best thing to do is to go ahead and pay.
Oh and you pay a fee to file and then a fee to have papers served. It's under $50.
One of the unfortunate parts here is that the people who own and work in this building are, (simply put) Angels.
What they do is the work of God and they had no idea this was going on, (until today).
They are very upset and are trying to figure out how to handle the situation.
Call in the Hounds and Call Mike Holmes for a Holmes inspection. He would have a field day with this.
Then in that case, Joe whomever the contractor is needs to pay up other otherwise face a boycott by the community and bad publicity. I'm sure the owner of the building damaged will be reasonable.
Who was the contractor?
Dont get "soft" here Joe. It is illegal what these contractors have done and need to make it right.
If you won't tell who the contractor is could you atleast tell if he's some fly by night or someone who is highly regarded in this field?
He makes it sound as if he's experienced in working on old buildings. I would like to know how many preservation trade workshops and seminars he has attended.
Joe, I work for an engineering firm downtown and I can assure you this, More than likely they fasteners will back out over time due to compaction and expansion from the cold weather and ice if we get it this winter...
Also at the same time, you will have a leakage problem because of the open or holed brick... With that, you will end up with water damage but you won't really know when or where because of all those holes...
Its also only a matter of time before that flashing that the other company installed goes bum up... meaning it will leak because I seen no silicon on the joints and especially the joint that connects the flashing to the building...
In my opinion, there are other ways to add flashing or protection without drilling into the brick... especially since its 120 years old...
Were the workers US citizens?
Let me start with this. The name of the contrasctor will come soon enough. The "OWNERS" of the property have been more than decent about this entire thing, hence my not stating who each party is.
I agree with others, there are better ways to install flashing. In fact, if you go back to the pictures on the Post you will see that I installed flashing from the back of their building over top of my own roof. The reason I did so was because their old gutter was fauling in many areas and the water was coming off their roof and falling in between the two buildings. There's only about a 6" gap between the two buildings and when it rained heavy it would soak into the cinder block and cause water damage near the floors. I had to remove all the drywall, insulation, dry it out and put flashing in between the buildings to stop water from getting in between and causing more problem.
Now, we didn't want to drill into their walls so we used a special silicone that would last longer than cheap stuff. When I challenged the manager and owner of this company when they first asked me about it, they said they wanted to go the other route because it would last longer. I said, LOOK, we ALL have to maintain our properties, it's a part of ownership. Clearly they didn't want to listen. We did it right, they went out of their way to violate the integrity of my building.
anonymous 3:14, I don't know about citizens but the two guys on the roof today couldn't speak a lick of english.
You are such a pussy. Why don't you man up to the contractor and settle it instead of crying to your dumbass lemming followers? One day someone is going to give you a well deserved punch in your fucking face.
Print that asshole.
As a contractor, I can tell you that you brick is pretty much shot! I would sue for damages. THEY ASKED YOU AND YOU SAID NO!!!! WHAT THE HECK!!!
There you go. You know how many contractors I know that are starving and have no work, jobs Americans dont want huh. These contractors that have sold the American worker out just to make a few extra bucks will be held accountable one day.
anonymous 3:23, my name is Joe Albero, I hide behind NOTHING. YOU know my address, come get a piece of me. The ONLY pussy is the one hiding behind anonymous. It shouldn't take much for people to figure out who you are.
this isn't news.
Stuff like this just ticks me off. People that do the right thing are always left with a hassle of trying to fix something some other dumb*** has messed up.
Why do people come on here using such nasty language where people are discussing a serious problem/ What do they feel they accomplsh.
3:32 at this point it really doesn't matter who the contractor is and if he makes good on it who really cares except maybe for the publicity of correcting a wrong.
Also you are gross! Must have been brought up by some real trash to use such horrible language on a public forum!
Oh here we go-someone starting trouble or atleast trying to. It bugs them to death that we are so influential otherwise they would ignore.
I would recommend to anyone that buys an older structure to immediately join the Preservation Trades Network. They can direct you to tradepeople skilled in the field of historic restoration, etc.
Any contractors interested in branching out should join also.
At a minimum, you need to send the contractor a letter stating that they are not welcome on your property at any time, for any reason. Then you can nail them for Trespassing. Send a copy of that letter to SPD so there are no questions when you call them.
You should also ask the property owner to deliver proof of the contractor's insurance to speak with them.
Start the lawsuit now. It's going to take plenty of time to resolve itself.
I think you should hire a structural engineer for an opinion of what the company did and if their work needs to be corrected. Once you have that information
you will than know if you need to hire a lawyer. Probably most people reading your posting, like me, do not totally understand what you are explaining, even with the pictures. Therefore most of us are not experienced enough to be handing out sound advice.
Hold on before the building owner spends any money hiring engineers, lawyer, etc if the contractor has a MD Home Improvement license they have something similiar to mediation and will award monetary damages if necessary out of a guaranty fund contractors pay into.
If you do get the name of the contractors insurance company, then file a claim with yours for the damages and put them in touch with the contractors insurance company and let them battle it out.
Been there done this.
That's a dang shame. Get what you pay for, chimps with power tools.
It should be repaired to the condition it was in prior to this happening.
the more lawyers you get involved, the more screwed up it will get... your website is enough to get the contractor to rectify this situation.. i don't believe that home improvement associations deal with commercial properties... good luck, you will be fine...
Have you gone to the city councel and asked for their help?
If you oil the (new) bit(s) and drill into the center of the block it will keep the heat of the bit to a minimum. Before you insert your anchor give the hole a shot a masonry poxy. She be better then new then. When you hit the anchor dont do it all at once with a big bang, split it into three hits which allows for expansion in a slower mannor. Oh yeah, you got the wrong darn anchor.
You use an anchor with what I just said but one that takes a screw, and dont run it in with a drill. You hand torque it in with a nut driver. Well if your a craftsman you do.
No wonder American is in such a debt (Not to be mean but.) and now know the reason they are idiots not all but most and they can't think ahead.
Hire an engineer and get estimates for all the damage. Then get a cease and desist order against the contractor before he tears up anything else
5:28, Since this buildling is not a dwelling, the MD Home Improvement Commission does not have jurisdiction over commercial properties.
The contractor should of followed a typical Quality Control process guide;
Preparatory
Intial
Follow-up
Obviously - there was not a Preparatory performed because the methodology - (approval of materials, method, work schedule) - wasn't agreed upon because the adjacent property owners were not even aware that the job was to begin.. Thus the job should not have commenced. Since that is now
'water over the dam' - now it is probably going to entail much more expensive remedial work in order to rectify the conditions.
Bottom line - it was a disaster in the making. I've seen this happen many times in my many years in the construction business.
They don't speak english?
They only speak or understand english when they want to.
Mexibury comming your way!
Come on , Who is the Contractor
5:57 better get yourself a spansish for idiots book.
My husband is a General Contractor. He said, get a lawyer, immediately and file a cease and desist order immediately to prevent them from accessing the property again to cover up or try to repair any further.
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