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Wednesday, January 28, 2009

Iranian leader demands US apology


First let me offer a little background on US-Iranian relations. Please read this before you say "They blew up the WTC, they ALL hate us, ALL Muslims are bad", because the plain truth is that they aren't all bad. Most in the Islamic world, even most people in Iran envy the U.S. and our freedom, technology, and way of life. The young people especially have internet, iPods, and like western culture and wish to come to the U.S. It's only the radical extremist few that want to destroy us, themselves, and all humanity. The following is a quick summary of why we have beef w/ Iran written by Two Sentz contributor Chuck:

In 1954, the US funded and aided a coup to overthrow the democratically elected Mossadeqh government in Iran. This was due to the government deciding to nationalize the BP fields and pipelines in Iran, which would have cost British Petroleum BILLION$ in revenue. So, with help from the CIA, the coup was successful, and Shah (King) Reza was installed as absolute ruler.

From 1954 until 1979, the Shah brutalized the Iranian people, and held onto power (with generous military and economic aid from the US) with an iron fist.

Then, in 1979, The Ayatollah (who had been in exile by the Shah), with overwhelming popular support, staged a revolution, and took the American embassy (and everyone in it as hostages).

The Islamic Revolution of Iran, and the rise of the Ayatollah, was a direct response to American involvement in Iranian affairs. We supported and backed a brutal dictator, and the people of Iran HATED us because of it.

Now, why did we do it? 1.) To protect and preserve BP's profits in the Iranian oil fields 2.) To maintain a 'friendly' Iranian government that would provide a buffer against Soviet Russia to the North.

That's the history of Iran, and why they hate us. It's not for 'our freedoms' or because they're hot headed Muslims, or some other such bull. Think about it. What if the roles were reversed? How would you feel it Iran funded and supplied arms to a coup attempt to overthrow the US government, and then supported a puppet for 25 years? Would you support a revolution to overthrow him? Would you be angry at Iran for injecting themselves and their interests in our internal affairs?

Now, hopefully, you have a better understanding of Iran, and why we need to talk to them, and stop saber rattling. Especially considering the fact that there is a large moderate faction in Iran that is eager to normalize relations with us.

Hopefully that served to educate some of you and you can cool your temper on your hot-headed comments. Iran has heard Obama's call and their President has responded with this:

Iran's president has responded to an overture by the new US president by demanding an apology for past US "crimes" committed against Iran.

"Those who speak of change must apologise to the Iranian people and try to repair their past crimes," he said.

The Iranian president welcomed the possibility of US change, but said: "When they say 'we want to make changes', change can happen in two ways".

"First is a fundamental and effective change... The second ... is a change of tactics. It is very clear that, if the meaning of change is the second one, this will soon be revealed," he said.

"If someone wants to talk with us in the language that [George W] Bush used... even if he uses new words, our response will be the same that we gave to Bush during the past years".

Relations between Washington and Tehran reached new lows in recent years over attempts by the US and its allies in the United Nations to curtail Iran's nuclear programme over fears it is trying to build nuclear weapons.

So where does that leave things? Well, at least the response from Iran was speedy and more positive than negative in my opinion. But should Obama apologize to Ahmadinejad for events that took place which neither of he nor Ahmadinejad were involved in bringing about? I don't think so. But neither side should ignore the facts of the matter either. If the real goal of the U.S. is peace with other nations then this is yet another step in the right direction. No one is suggesting turning a blind eye to what Iran does, just simply starting a dialogue and creating an atmosphere that can help reverse the deteriorating coarse of relations. As the saying goes: "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer."
Again, from Chuck:

Here's how Obama handles this:
Don't talk to Ahmadinejad. He's a puppet, anyway. Talk directly to the REAL power in Iran, the Ayatollah. Hold talks with him, and you show the Iranian people that America knows where the power lies (thus illustrating to them how they are NOT a true Democracy), and you completely disregard the crazy bigot who can't take a crap without asking the Ayatollah, anyway.

From Melanie:

Here's a good place to start: let women work again. We've seen this time and time again: one of the best ways to improve a country is to let women go to school, get an education, and get a job. Until that happens, there's little hope for real, substantive change.


46 comments:

Anonymous said...

Our bad?

Sean said...

So like always liberals, Chuck, is blaming the US for everything. No matter what happened in 1959 we, as leaders of the free world, can not allow Iran to get nuclear weapons. They are very hostile to Israel and would use a nuke on them the first chance they got. It is time for the leadership of Iran to let bygones be bygones and start with a clean slate. We can not go around apologizing to everyone we made mad at some point. This is not different than the whites that allow themselves to be abused for slavery. I do not feel guilty about slavery and neither should anyone else. Blacks should not feel wronged because of slavery. No white alive today owned a slave and no black alive today was a slave. It was an ugly time in our history but it has been over for a very long time. Let it go.
LET IT GO!

chuck said...

Sean,

I am not "blaming the US for everything". I am saying that, due to US foreign policy towards Iran in the 50's, we have a Theocratic hell hole in Iran today. That is a direct cause and effect, and it's undeniable.

No matter what happened in 1959 we, as leaders of the free world, can not allow Iran to get nuclear weapons.

We do not disagree about that, nor was that ever the point. But, if you want to get into the discussion of Iran and nuclear weapons, do you think it helps or hurts our cause to continue not talking to Iran? If you want an Iran without nuclear weapons, what do you think is the best way to proceed with them in order to reach that goal?

Back to the original point: You never answered the question in the post... if the roles were reversed, how would you feel? This isn't slavery, and it's not 140 years ago. It was 50 years ago, and our relationship with Iran is still affected by it.

Anonymous said...

Sorry Sean, the legacy of slavery was not over a very long time ago. Many people alive today suffered under just a samll part of it.

Jim Crow, look it up please.

Anonymous said...

I don't think Chuck or any liberal wants Iran to have nukes. The point of his comment was to answer the question: why do many (not all) Iranians hate the US? To many readers here, the simple knee-jerk response has been: because they are Muslims and obviously all Muslims hate the US. That isn't true, there is a long history to all of this. Perhaps knowing the history will help people understand that religious differences are only a tiny piece of the puzzle here.

Anonymous said...

Sean said, "It is time for the leadership of Iran to let bygones be bygones and start with a clean slate. We can not go around apologizing to everyone we made mad at some point."

So, would you grant the same to Iran, then? Or the rest of the Muslim world? Isn't that EXACTLY what Obama is saying? Sounds like you agree with a liberal president, Sean!

Two Sentz said...

Sean said:
"Blacks should not feel wronged because of slavery."


Uhhhh, ok. Remind me to disregard all of your future comments.

Anonymous said...

Sean made some very good points and I think if Iran wants an apology for past policy then they aren't really going to let it go, are they? This is probably the same "Rope a Dope" North Korea has used to keep building on their nuclear interests while suppressing their people. Obama would be an idiot to fall for this kind of trick or to apologize for past policies. As for white guilt, I don't know of anyone alive or dead, white or black that was a slave, and I don't know of anyone white or black, alive or dead, who has admitted to owning a slave. You can cry about Jim Crow laws, but it wasn't the same as slavery.

Anonymous said...

Two Sentz, what portion of the population are descendants of slave owners? People act like if you are white you are automatically a descendant of a slave owner but in reality only the rich could afford them. With that said why do all whites have to pay?

Anonymous said...

Yes , it would be nice to be friends with every country and
tip toe through the tulips,all is
happy.
We are a nation of capitalism ,
we are competitive , and we are greedy.
Think about it , the world has been at war since man entered
the picture and it will continue.
Now that we are drawing close to a social society , we will not win
any war. We have the need to be
led and cannot make decisions.
Our country is at stake and we are
crawling to the enemy and crying
like a baby.
Now to the point , Iran supports
the terrorist and has for years.
They declared war on America in
the 911 incident. I HAVEN'T FORGOT
have you ?

Two Sentz said...

Not to turn this into a race relations post but you can't ignore history. It's like a six year old saying "I wasn't alive on 9/11 and therefore we should all just forget it and move on." Well on one hand, we should move on but on the other hand we must never forget. Certain events and ideologies led to it and those ideologies still exist. Although slavery doesn't exist in the US as it once did, the ideology that led to it (racism) most certainly still does therefore you can't just move on. By simply trying to make this or any issue cut and dry, black and white (so to speak), and disregard the legitimate concers of all involved parties, you will never bring about a lasting resolution, in my opinion.

Anonymous said...

Well My Family never owned a slave and I guess what!!My White southern family was "share croppers" which means they were land slaves.....thanks for my appropreations in advance...

Anonymous said...

If your family was share croppers, they got a share of the crop (get it?). Slaves did not.

thomas augustus littleton said...

Two Sentz,
While this brief history is accurate, it is also very superficial.
As someone who obviously likes history, surely you understand that the fundamental, deeper, cosmic problem is many centuries old. Most Christians and Jews believe God gave the land of Israel to the Jews. Muslims want it for themselves even though they already own 95% of the land in the region. Islam has been the centuries old mortal enemy of Christians and Jews. Iran's president has also recently stated his goal is the destruction of Israel.

Now, lets fast forward to today. President Obama just gave a news conference to Arab TV. He stated that he has many friends and family members who are Muslims. (Funny, he didn't bring that fact to the front while running for office...hmmmm).

We and the U.K. helped establish the modern state of Israel in 1948 and their survival has been our policy for 60 years. ("I will bless those who bless Israel, and I will curse those who curse Israel." Bible)(The Koran also says Israel belongs to the Jews, but Muslims skip over that part)!

There will be no peace while Israel is threatened by her Muslim brothers. There will be a 3 year truce, then Armageddon. If Mr. Obama emerges as a champion of Islam, he will be putting America on the wrong side of that conflict and betraying hundreds of years of Christian struggle against Islam.

If President Obama starts to mollify Islam or issues apologies to Iran, or apologizes for Nagasaki or Hiroshima and like defenses of American lives, I would hope that the legislative branch would immediately impeach and remove such a traitor from office. Im not saying President Obama will pursue the passion of Islam, but if he does, well, read the Bible; it tells you how the story ends.

The only apology I issue to Iran is that I'm sorry we didn't turn their sand to glass in 1978! You don't f*** with American citizens, whether they are black, white, red or brown. They are fellow Americans, and future terrorists should be made to understand that we WILL defend Americans around the world with a vindictive vengeance & extreme prejudice against any who harm them!

Anonymous said...

Well, TAL, since you are such a student of history, why don't you tell everyone what the Balfour Treaty was?

Whoopsie!

Anonymous said...

$.02

Slavery was a sign of the times. I am white and in no way responsible for slavery.....Blacks sold their own kind,,,,,deal with it!I would almost bet that not one black living today was a slave. Guess what, my great, great, great grand mother was robbed by a mexican...Are all mexicans robbers....No we can't forget, but we don't have to dwell on it either....Blacks sold blacks, whites bought blacks and god allowed it to happen. Don't hold me responsible for it and allow special events or privelages because of it.

chuck said...

Thomas,

you said: While this brief history is accurate, it is also very superficial.

I don't find it superficial that a CIA backed coup overthrew a democratically elected government in Iran and installed a brutal dictator, and the Iranians certainly don't think it's superficial, either. It is the root cause for the Iranian revolution in 1979 and has dictated the tone and tenor or our relationship ever since.

He stated that he has many friends and family members who are Muslims. (Funny, he didn't bring that fact to the front while running for office...hmmmm).

He most certainly did, when talking about his relatives in Kenya. It was covered comprehensively in the media.

If Mr. Obama emerges as a champion of Islam, he will be putting America on the wrong side of that conflict and betraying hundreds of years of Christian struggle against Islam.

First: PRESIDENT Obama is the champion of America, not Islam or any other religion. He is the secular leader of a secular democracy. Second: There should be no "Christian struggle against Islam". This is the divisiveness that needs to end.

Im not saying President Obama will pursue the passion of Islam, but if he does, well, read the Bible; it tells you how the story ends.

Once again, this is a secular democracy. We do not use the Bible or any other religious text as a guide to our actions. I find it ironic that so many Christians talk about the extremism of Islam and don't recognize their own subtle calls for Theocracy within their own borders.

The only apology I issue to Iran is that I'm sorry we didn't turn their sand to glass in 1978!

Then you advocate genocide, and are no better than the very people with whom you disagree. I don't think that's very helpful or will lead to any kind of peace.

thomas augustus littleton said...

12:51

Oh dear grasshopper, when will you realize your violent vengeful attitude begets more of the same. That is why the "problem is many centuries old" as you put it. When will you and the rest of humanity realize this do what is right for us here today? If you are a Christian as you claim, ask yourself "What would Jesus do?" Your answer should be quite obvious and I don't think it would include "vindictive vengeance & extreme prejudice" as you say.

Maybe you had better hang with your racist friend Big Alberta. And relinquish your claim to my identity, grasshopper!

BigEastFireDog said...

Okay Okay Okay
Big Question?

What does an apology solve for something that happened 50 years ago?

If they did get the apology, what would they do with it?

Slavery was wrong, yes, then what does somebody who was not a slave get out of someone who never owned slaves?

And why make that person apologize?

Just a question nothing persional!!

Two Sentz said...

Wow 1:19! I dont know where to begin. How about you re-read my comment and if that doesn't work try this:

1. dig hole

2. insert head

Moon Willow said...

TAL also says: "The Koran also says Israel belongs to the Jews, but Muslims skip over that part)!"

Kinda like the way Christians skip over certain parts of the Bible, right?

Anonymous said...

1:19. I am going to go out on a limb and take a guess judging by your "speech" that you have probably never tailgated at a Public Enemy concert...

Anonymous said...

You foolish people, yeah theres extreamist muslims and moderate muslims but if shit ever hit the fan the moderates wont stand with us. If you dont stand with us, where do you stand? You left wing liberals have no ideal how to defend a nation, I bet you get your chance. Well see where you stand then. I would have him shot and done with.

chuck said...

BigEastFireDog,

Fair question, no doubt. And, I don't think America needs to apologize to Iran, either. I do believe, however, that an equitable treatment of Iran (i.e. sitting down and talking with their leaders, ending the embargo, etc.) is definitely in America's best interests.

Remember, the best way to undermine extremists is to undermine their justification (or propaganda) for it. If we want to cut the legs out from under Ahmadinejad, we need to show the Iranian people that we are their friends. Right now, he is popular because he can demonize us as being 'enemies of the Iranian people'. Take that away from him, and all you've got is a raving lunatic holocaust denier.

BigEastFireDog said...

Exactualy Chuck

There is nothing wrong with sitting down and talking about it but i dont think the American Government OUR GOVERNMENT needs to play the whole

"oh im sorry please dont hate me forever card, cant we still be friends if i do what you want" card!

chuck said...

BigEast,

Thankfully, I don't think anyone is advocating that, except Ahmadinejad. And he's an extremist idiot, anyway.

Anonymous said...

.02 centz...here's mine...
Slavery...done, gone...LOsers-white people keep saying their sorry, Winners-Africans-off the hook, they sold their rival clans and got rid of enemies and families
Today and Now-all Americans on both sides of the issue-Whiners

Here's a thought...if Iran is mad at us for overthrowing a democracy in 1954, aren't they pissed at themselves for the Ayotollah coming back and keeping them in the same crap-different leader, I mean, really, why are they mad at us since they're in the same boat as after 1954 and that wasn't our fault...maybe we should stop feeling guilty and send them all mirrors.

Anonymous said...

$.02

My apoligies two Sentz, I did go back and read your entire comment. Heres what I got from it, beat around the bush liberal mumbo jumbo. You sound just like Obama in the fact that we don't know what side you are on, just a mess for me when you rant. Maybe Craigs List is the place for you, there is a section "Rant and Rave". You probably look for the "present" button when voting too huh?

On a serious note, I was able to (after ten or so times) get what I believe is your point.

Anonymous said...

Mr Reese,

(off the record) I just read that you were one of Jerry's kids on another blog, and there is a fund raiser for you on Labor Day..

Now back to the Public Enemy tailgating!

You guessed it, I have never tailgated at a Public Enemy concert. I have been to see Lynyrd Skynyrd 6 times, and Black Sabbath once, but is my concert attendance the issue, no.

Anyway to answer your question the reason why I wouldn't attend a concert of that nature is easily answered with the following or previous post: They all act this way!

Please refer to Jan 24th, 2009 Post by Boss Hogg titled "A National Day of Renewal and Reconciliation" at 2:21 pm, that should answer all doubt!

Anonymous said...

4:44. "They all" would beat you within an inch of your life if you quacked your little nonsense in public...and trust me; when "the man" asks how you ended up on a helicopter hop to shock trauma, I didn't see nuthin'....BTW..the fact your little anonymous chicken guano tail would even darken Skynyrd's rep on the day Billy Powell has died tells me you aren't just a poor racist, but the type of "country boy that can survive"..

Anonymous said...

Mr Reese, See the anger in you, I don't have to go out on a limb to guess your only means of reconciliation or debate is with violence due to the fact that you approve of that video. I wouldn't waste a mouth full of "Beechnut" to spit in your eyes as this country boy would like to. I wouldn't p@$s on you if you were on fire......You wouldn't have to worry about "seeing a thing" or not, I wouldn't be around little thugs like you, I wouldn't have to lift a hand to beat the s*%t out of you, your mom is more man than you...BTW, you are right again, I am the country boy that can survive, I make my own, earn my own so little thug lovers like you can flex your little muscles at traffic while you walk to the mail box to get your check......Let me tell you something, I would beat you so bad you would beg me to kill you!

Didn't mean to keep you waiting, I know your little pansie a$$ would be waiting for a reply.....When you get around to figuring out who I am you will also learn that I own your little Bi^&h tail!

Anonymous said...

I don't think it said "chuck and/or two sentz demands apology"... and how did we slip the slavery issue in there?

Anonymous said...

Anon 5:32 Any chance you're about 5'3" tall and thinning out real bad on top?

Anonymous said...

5:44 any chance your stupid? You just got here and want to start running your lip, I would spit in your eye......5'10" 210 btw and I can hold my own....

Anonymous said...

5:44. I don't know you, but you couldn't have said that any better if you were, in fact, Ms. Cleo...I have a copy of the Baltimore Metro yellow pages for Mr. Anonymous Tough Guy to stand upon if that helps ease him into a guillotine choke a little quicker so I can submit him while happy hour beers are still discounted..BTW "tough guy"- I once killed a red state dingo with my 1 iron because he looked at me funny while I was chipping out of the rough...{INEVITABLE DISCAIMER: Anyone who has endured a round of golf with Kommisar Bobby knows no actual animals or golf balls were harmed in this testosterone based analogy as he has not made solid contact against anything with his 1iron in over a decade... ;)}

Anonymous said...

5:57. I am sure you can "hold your own"...based on your sophistercated rap {or lack thereof} nobody else is going to "hold it" for you!!

Anonymous said...

I heard a funny story today. I have a friend from over seas, Iran, who had the opportunity to go see their nuclear reactors. They are selling tickets for 2k just to show a reactor! Come on grow up. Man this is stupid.

Anonymous said...

I'm with TAL. I would never trust a Muslim. They're almost as wicked as Christians.

Anonymous said...

Mr Reese

I wasn't trying to rap, remember you are the thug here, the who likes aggression and rap!

You also killed an afternoon or evening here agruing, I kept you going on two blogs you stupid idiot! I have all day "Na mean" jus keeping stuffs real, for ya br'a, so toot your horn as posted on the other blog, have a good evening, and if I want any more lip from you, I'll pull it off my zipper!Sleep tight!

Anonymous said...

Reese is a woman!

Anonymous said...

9:56. Now who can argue with THAT!! Not only was it authentic frontier gibberish, but it expresses a cowardice little seen in this day and age!! {and try to keep your stubby little sausage fingers out of your zipper and nose or you will get cooties}

Anonymous said...

Mrs or MS. Reese, I knew you couldn't sleep, me either, how is your evening?

Anonymous said...

10:11. BTW...If I am a female, I am pretty sure I am a lesbian....{not that there is anything wrong with that ;)}...Don Rickles would be extremely upset if I squandered my stand-up philosopher fantasy camp tuition and didn't at least try to test the comedic boundaries tonite..Chalk me up for a comedy mulligan if I am "working too blue"....

thomas augustus littleton said...

12:51: (TAL imposter)

Jesus would come back as a two edged sword and slay those would destroy Israel!

Now to you, you lying, thieving piece of crap. May a curse be on your mother for ever bringing a thief like you into the world!

You are illegally using my TAL blogger identity. I will ask to have you traced and prosecuted.
I have absolutely no problem with people disagreeing with me...I expect it. But I have a big problem with an asshole like you who fradulently uses my identity.
After the authoritites tell me who you are, how bout if we meet and I stomp your ass for stealing my internet property. Not man enough for that, are you, punk!
I no longer use the image of the old man. I now use my real picture.
And stop talking bad about my friend, Miss Alberta, at least while using MY I.D.
Don't you dare use my I.D. to espouse your chicken shit, lilly livered vision for America, PUNK!

As for the other, legitimate person who commented on my thoughts: Yes, Our president should only represent the nationial security interests of the U.S. We elected him president of The United States of America, not the world, not Arabia, not Iraq or Iran! The Bible says, " I will bless those who bless Israel and I will curse those who curse Israel." So, according to God, it is in the very best interests of The United States to support Israel against her enemies. All of our presidents back to Truman have understood this.

Anonymous said...

Hey 5' 3" man. WAKE UP! There's a line of sputum handing from your chin. Rub it off on your Rusty Wallace T shirt thats covered in Skoal excrement..

Anonymous said...

Obama would win more support if he went right over to the Iran and said in person " Excuuuuussse ME !"

Then just let one of the longest nastiest smelliest loudest plurff go you can imagine. Then turn and walk away.