Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "WITH MINIMUM WAGE DEBATE SET TO TAKE CENTER STAGE,...":
1:51 to Annie
Actually I have more than a clue. Have a combination of academics and decades of experience wrestling with these topics for demanding employers, both privately and publicly held, in for profit and not for profit segments. Explaining facts to employees, P&L responsibility and working the spreadsheets to convince VPs of what we could afford, and where we should pay more, or less. Been there, done that.
In 1938 my late Dad was working p/t in a butcher shop for $.10 per hour while in college; he graduated with a hard science degree at 19. In 1968 MW was $1.60/hr when I graduated HS at 16. I also worked my way through college; got raises from MW jobs based on performance. Usually paid .21 to .23 per gallon of gas then.
The MW took effect Oct 24, 1938 at .25/hr and a year later was bumped to .30/hr; six months after your hero FDR passed it went to .40/hr. (Don’t know if the 1945 bump was passed before he died; please feel free to disparage me for that omission). Here is the DOL page with the actual information http://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/chart.htmBut check the 5 footnotes as you do your research; the first two are most germane to this discussion. 1 The 1938 Act was applicable generally to employees engaged in interstate commerce or in the production of goods for interstate commerce.
2 The 1961 Amendments extended coverage primarily to employees in large retail and service enterprises as well as to local transit, construction, and gasoline service station employees.
So DOL’s first footnote shows the initial MW was narrowly applied to only a subset of jobs rather than your expansive interpretation. And in 1938, under FDR the top Federal income tax rate was 79%; it had risen to 94% when he passed. (Mr. Big would only retain $60/day of his $1,000 pay; still pretty fair but less impressive sounding). In that era executives making $260K annually would have been very few and far between so it was just the class envy demagoguery FDR and his acolytes OweBama, OweMalley and OweBrown run with 24/7. The 1938 Federal rate would have been 4% or less for MW earners.
In earlier posts you’ve claimed to be controller for several companies. I’m curious to know what your lowest paid employee makes and what the range is to your top paid official. I sleep peacefully safe in the knowledge that your staff is so well, fairly and evenly compensated that the proposed 39% increase won’t upset your applecart.
Some corporations are posting higher profits; those that don’t are savaged by the market, pension funds, etc and they recruit replacements for fired big-wigs. So pleased your response to a decline in revenue or dramatically increased costs at your job would be to hold steady; you are blessed with a deep pocketed, understanding boss.
Not adverse ever to anyone earning more provided it arises from their efforts in conjunction with their employer, as opposed to OweMalley etc ‘awarding’ an increase.
I will agree that there is a perverse effect also because larger operators have more resources to work with in dealing with these costs, but they cannot subsidize every store and every product. They are in the market’s cross hairs if their numbers backslide; the smaller operator is just out of business when sales lag or margins disappear. I lived through the Carter years and don’t want a return ticket; in some cases we were changing prices weekly in reaction to cost changes from suppliers on that frequency. With today’s computer links every transaction could become akin to buying an airline ticket.
When you kill the goose the golden eggs cease.
In closing, the article we are referring to was penned by a graduate student in journalism, an academic pursuit generally long on verbiage and rhetoric while dramatically short on math skills. However adept they maybe at googling this or that, they have scant life experience to bring to the equation.
Being rude is not the same as marshalling facts to make a point.
DelMarVa's Premier Source for News, Opinion, Analysis, and Human Interest Contact Publisher Joe Albero at alberobutzo@wmconnect.com or 410-430-5349
23 comments:
Sir or Madam,
Your spiel seems to be long on verbage too. Not sure the point of this.
He had not point. He was trying to make an arse out of someone and simply made one of himself.
He didn't even address any of her valid points to her side of the argument.
don't miss the forest for the trees. If you understand maximizing ROI, then you should know that taxpayers want to accomplish the same. Low-wage earners are often supplemented by social program, such as food stamps, housing vouchers, and obamacare. By raising minimum wage, we the people can reduce our costs and enjoy lower tax burdens, even though prices may rise to offset higher wages.
The current low wage model lies in contrast to the high-wage social contract that prevailed in the New Deal era of the 1930s through the 1970s. High and rising wages spurred consumption as many more consumers entered the middle class and could afford a greater number of products. High-paying jobs in manufacturing and industry allowed workers without college degrees to earn a middle class standard of living, while unionization and the example that unionized firms set for others contributed to ensuring that wages stayed high.
Unfortunately, the preconditions that contributed to high wages and rapid productivity increases do not exist in the same form today as they did half a century ago. Innovation is still the linchpin of economic growth, but it will be more difficult to make large productivity leaps in the untradeable, technology-resistant sectors in which many new jobs are being created. Industrial sectors like manufacturing continue to shed jobs even as we attempt to retain their important value-added economic functions. An increasing role for what economist William Baumol termed the ‘stagnant sector’ means a greater share of employment and consumption will take place in services. We have already seen this taking place: more than 86% of the workforce is now employed in the service sector. Service sector jobs are divided between higher paying professional and business services, like finance, and low-wage “final demand” industries like food service and hospitality. Most of the recent job growth has come in the low wage service industries, and many potential sources of future employment in childcare and health assistance also predominantly pay low wages.
only 5% of the population are paid minimum wage. So the increased cost of goods will be minimal.
Is it a joke that you think the most recent job growth is in the service industry? Only reason they are hiring is because they cut everyone's hours to below 30.
It is not an immediate 39% increase. You stretched the truth, which makes you look like a liar.
It is incremental over several years.
Plus Montgomery and Prince George’s counties approved raising the minimum wages in those jurisdictions last year to $11.50 by 2017.
But you don't even mention that.
Did you actually have a point?
For crying out loud,raise it or keep it the same? 2 simple choices do not a mini series make.
anonymous 8:00, with all due respect, the Eastern Shore is NOT Montgomery County or Prince Georges County.
I have tried so many damn times to explain this to all of you, including annie. We cannot afford the newly proposed MW.
We can't afford NOT to raise the MW.
Since the cost of goods has risen since the last raise in 2009 and the value of the dollar is down, people especially the working poor have less buying power.
You want to lower taxes but how do you propose you do that when you have a high poverty and unemployment rate in this county.
Lets couple that with less job opportunities.
How many jobs to you expect these people to work to keep their heads above water, if they can even find them?
Do you realize that being on welfare pays more than a 40 hour a week job at minimum wage?
Surely you can Albero with three houses and a ranch. They say big macs will only go up by .13
7:36
You write like the original poster, again making no point whatsoever. I agree with Joe, this is the Eastern Shore not Montgomery Co. Can't compare apples and oranges. But to continue to post diatribes like the original post and the 7:36 one....geez, OK, let's just raise the MW. Maybe then 60% of households will be using SNAP.
BTW OP
Do you want to start 'marshaling some facts to make some sense'?
Gee Whiz! This is complicated!!!
Honestly, have never read anything quite as obscure as the original post here. Whoever that is had either sober up or stop smoking the 'juana.
Montgomery County has free ambulance rides too, down here they tax your ass like $600 for it
he is just one of those arrogant sob's that are impressed with themselves and speaks so obscurely to make the reader feel stupid when in fact he has said nothing.
Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) is a personality disorder in which a person is excessively preoccupied with personal adequacy, power, prestige and vanity.
Did you know in the state of Maryland that the value of major welfare programs in wage equivalent dollars averages $38,160 per welfare recipient per year, which equals over $18 an hour
Raise the minimum wage to $10, cut back the hours to under 30, and you are effectively paying the employee the same weekly money for 25% less production, and he's still on Welfare.
Tell me again how this helps anyone, Annie?
9:08 They have already cut their hours to 30 on the $7.25 they are making.
Does that answer your ridiculous question?
Do I need to do the math for you too?
Joe, you have it right! I said before, we cannot afford the new MW. Even small businesses can't.
9:30 right, but we can afford to pay welfare recipients equal to $18/hr. That makes a lot of sense.
Re: Annie’s facts at 8:11 pm yesterday and earlier, and below that to 8:00pm
Except for Annie’s fixation on greedy employers everyone wants to see the greatest good for the most people. There are different views on how best to achieve that or how to enable people to advance based on their contributions. The blog format imposes some constraints due to space and audience. Here is DOL’s discussion of MW’s history http://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/coverage.htm
At 4:03 Annie wrongly claimed 29 states are above Federal MW; here are the facts from a non-partisan organization serving all state legislatures. Cities, counties, etc can also establish higher rates.
http://www.ncsl.org/research/labor-and-employment/state-minimum-wage-chart.aspx
“The table below (collapsed) reflects state minimum wages in effect for 2014, as well as future increases (already enacted; proposed MD jump is not law). (Preceding items in parenthesis are my clarifications).
For 2014, 21 states and D.C. have minimum wages above the federal minimum wage. 19 states, GU, PR and VI have minimum wages the same as the federal minimum wage of $7.25. 4 states and AS (American Samoa) have minimum wages below the federal minimum wage (the federal minimum thus applies). 1 state, New Hampshire, repealed their state minimum wage in 2011, but left the reference to the federal minimum wage. 5 states have not established a state minimum wage.”
At the same time she claimed that less than 5% of employees earn MW; if that is correct then 95% of jobs pay more and that’s where they should be applying buoyed by their skillsets in their current job. Greedy employers should grudgingly be glad to pay well for such skilled, productive workers since another employer already footed the bill for basic training. And if there’s an exodus the current employer may give a raise to retain them. That’s how markets work.
Her third factual contribution yesterday was a FDR opinion quote from 70+ years ago.
Her fourth and final factoid was an apples/oranges comparison between weekly welfare payout and 40 hrs ($ 290, my calculation) at current MW. She didn’t provide a figure for the welfare check either so not challenging it. But two observations: many on welfare are unable to work; some are which is side issue. And 40 hr MW jobs are anecdotally much scarcer now due to OweBamacare health care rule causing many 25% reductions in hours to 30 hour threshold. She finally tumbled to this today at 9:18 am.
To 8:00 pm
Agree MW jump will be incremental; that knowledge on part of original post readers (you) was assumed; the cumulative effect remains.
You are purchasing a new car this week; gas is currently $ X, but you know it will increase to $ X+ when the first MW jump occurs and $ X++ when the second jump occurs. At that point your gas cost will be 39% higher than today. Will this current knowledge of future assured costs affect the car you buy today?
If you employ workers at/near MW you’ll be paying attention; same if you buy anything MW folks produce because costs will not remain static and you’re not in line to benefit from OweMalley’s raise.
How about if Ricky raises your property taxes 39%, just not all at once; still smiling or would you be taking that current information about certain future events into account in your planning?
PG and Montgomery counties are their own special versions of paradise. Venture a guess whether costs to consumers will be greater there or in adjacent counties. Where would you start or expand your business? You’ll only be paying $8,840 more per employee in 2017 vs. current pay (just wages, payroll taxes not calculated). Your competitor across the county line will pay only $5,928 more at the proposed $10.10 rate. Your PG & Montgomery outlets are gonna be $2,912 in the hole, per employee, each year onward. Still smiling? And DC recently turned back an increase effort to partially copycat them to save jobs. DC is currently above Federal MW.
Settle it the way educated people do.Flip a coin.
11:19 I see you failed to mention one of Annie's most important facts that you are already subsidizing billion dollar corporations through higher taxes to pay welfare, for those on minimum wage. So her "fixation of greedy employers" as you so rudely put it, is spot on when you have corporations such as Walmart being subsidized through taxpayer dollars not only for wages, but also tax concessions for coming to their town.
You are also incorrect in your tally of the state count. Although not all states are formally counted, but Maryland as an example in certain counties pay a higher minimum, therefore they should be counted but are not, formally.
She is also correct in the low percentage of people working minimum wage vs others. Which negates the argument that the increase will cause catastrophic inflation and unemployment.
She also substantiated facts on how many times minimum wage has increased and the lapse of decades it has not, including squashing the myth of ripple effect inflation and soaring unemployment which never seems to follow an increase, but is still used as a scare tact by employers such as walmart, who is the biggest lobbyist against increases.
You look like a very small person that can not uphold their argument with solid fact, without belittling another persons opinion with sarcasm and sniping.
What she says is more fact than fiction and she has not "finally tumbled" into revealing any facts, you are simply late in the game.
If you had bothered to do better research you would find that the amount she quoted for welfare per hour is correct per the government website. You were more than happy to criticize but offered no factual data to support your criticism.
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