Yesterday's Daily Times feature article gives the impression that our counties K-12 education is in dire financial straits. However - the financial situation is not as bad as The Daily Times staff would have you believe. As most people know - The Daily Times staff is heavily laced with contributors that have strong affiliations and ties with the Board of Education - thus their agenda is to prop-up and syphon off as much taxpayers money as the public will allow them. Today - SBYnews gives our readers our version of the school budget.Position on County Funding of Education
There are approximately 14,531 students and 1082 teachers in Wicomico County. That means there are approximately 13.43 students per teacher. If that is the case - then there should be fewer teachers - (reduced through retirement) - until the ratio is between 20/1 or 25/1. So let's run the numbers and see how this stacks up for Wicomico's taxpayers.
With a 20/1 ratio - we would need 727 teachers total. If they were all paid a top salary of $55,100 the teacher total would be 40.06 million dollars. Look at it another way - if the ratio is permitted to rise to 20/1, there would be 355 fewer teachers to pay. Presuming the most senior teachers (highest paid) would be the ones to retire, and, presuming they all make about 55.1k/year, then the County would save 19.56 million dollars - ($55,100 x 355 = 19.56m)
If the ratio went to 25/1 there would be 501 less teachers in Wicomico County. Then the savings would be even higher at $27.6 million dollars. At this level of savings - the County could easily afford to pay the remaining teachers substantially higher salaries. Moreover, at this level our County could even escrow and build a capital improvement budget whereby our County would not have to reach out and ask the State for anything. Upon reviewing the Maryland Board of Public Works website - it shows that there are currently three counties that are not requesting any State assistance for capital improvements - (Kent, Talbot, & Worcester).
Note: The current salary of a school teacher is very close to what a Federal employed Engineer would be making if you adjust for the fact that the Engineer is obligated to work 1940 hours verses a school teacher 1488 hours. Someone with a non-technical degree might not make as much as an Engineer. 1940/1488 is 1.303. That's the amount to multiply when you compare your salary with people that work all year and get two weeks and holidays off.
The big problem (or perk) with teaching is that they don't work all year. On the bright side - it gives them the opportunity to experience other jobs during the summer - or - to take long vacations if they can afford them.
Bottom Line - Wicomico's Superintendent John Fredericksen - has all of the tools at his disposal to bring Wicomico's educational budget into alignment with our public's financial expectations. The problem is - he may have already allied himself to special interest - after all - our County does not yet have an elected school board and thus it is not a true reflection or representation of our taxpayers constituency. In fact - it is laced heavily with educators who have shown that they have no qualms about imposing their will upon the people - (i.e. BMS).
We hope that our elected County Council members will take all of the above into consideration before they allocate additional taxpayers resources to the educational entity. As we said - John Fredericksen has all of the tools necessary - question is - how will he use them.
New Posts to fall below.
57 comments:
Spending gets no results. Destruction of the family and parental responsibilities put schools and teachers in a battle with disruptive kids while trying to teach those who want to learn. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. More money does not solve the problem. Good parenting does.
Your reasoning is flawed. You do not consider that some staff are not permitted to have over a certain number of students. For example, special ed and Title I. There are many needed special ed teachers without homerooms or can only have 4-5 students because of their severe issues.
Make sure you have all the facts before rustling some feathers.
So many say that "good parenting" solves the problem of discipline in schools. No argument there. But how are we going to solve the problem? We can't make good parents of those who lack the skills. The big dilemma is and has been how to turn things around. Anyone have any ideas?
These calculations have a fatal flaw...the assumption that getting to 20/1 would no impact on student learning. Simply not true.
Because special needs kids need very low teacher/student ratios (2/1 - 5/1), the rest of the county would need to be 30 - 35/1 to balance out. Anyone in education will tell you 35 students per teacher equals decreased learning. You end up getting less than you paid for.
Reference 2:10
Go tell that to the Chinese, Japanese, Tiawanese, Indians - they are turning out some of the brightest people in the entire world.
I say implement the adjustment and go with it.
Beezer - I say go with the revised numbers. That way they can bring back some of previous programs like Drivers Education.
I think your suggestion is an excellent idea.
2:09 For years we have subsidized single parenthood and for a while we incouraged it, by increasing payments if it was a single parent home. We might try holding parents responsible with fines or even jail if their children are disruptive. We are being brought down to the lowest common denominator.
first off most of the kids in the special ed classes are the ones from the households where the parent (notice i said most, and parent) does not give a crap about teaching them anything other than scamming the system. Truthfully I never understand the reasoning behind why our society permits these irresponible citizens to continue to breed and dump their mistakes on the taxpaying public and let society deal with all the ills committed by them. You need a license to cut hair, to clip nails, how much damage can a hair dresser do to society? it's about time people have to prove they can parent before they can breed! of course that would probably be the end of the democratic party!
I noticed that Kent, Talbot, and Worcester Counties are not asking for any capital improvement money.
Does anyone know what gives with these localities? I find this highly unusual as I have not heard about this until now.
Response to 2:28 comment whereby it says Kent, Talbot, & Worcester Counties have not requested any Capital Improvement State Money.
I'll tell you why - because if the County does not receive any State aid - then it is exempted from Maintenance of Effort requirements.
Remember the old verse in the Bible;
'The Debtor is the Servant unto the Lender'
The same is applicable today as it was over 1000 years ago.
Reference to 2:03 Posting Regarding Special Ed and Title 1
We would be more than happy to factor-in these Special Ed needs. Maybe if you could get me the information statistics on how many of these special case students we have in Wicomico County system - then we can proceed with a proposed solution. I would also like to know how many Special Ed teachers there are in Wicomico County. I would like to have these stats.
You might just be opening ANOTHER can of worms with special ed.
Beezer, the information you are requesting sounds reasonable to me. I would also like to know how many students our county is providing 1 teacher per 1 student or 1 teacher per 2 students as commenter 2:10 claims.
2:10 "Anyone in education will tell you 35 students per teacher equals decreased learning." That statement alone is why we need non-educators on school boards and in responsible administrative positions. Most foreign countries, with higher learning standards, most colleges with high quality education, most school systems in the past (including one room schools with 1 teacher for 40 kids in 8 different grades) and even progressive public and private schools in the US disprove that assumption. It begs the same argument we need pretty new buildings so the students can learn. That's all hogwash espoused by overpaid, underachieving, "educators" shifting the blame for their own inadequacies.
OPEN that can!
Who the heck are you guys at SBYnews. I swear - I have never witnessed such good reporting in my entire lifetime of living on the easternshore. You must ex-military - I am dying to know.
Well bottom line is...
It doesn't matter... They just want to spend because its not their money... They don't have to worry about it... Nothing will change until all of your money is in their pockets and they are telling you how, where, and what to live...
It's cool to hate teachers now a days. I use to think teachers had it easy but now that everyone is anti teacher I really don't envy them anymore.
There are lots of kids with 1 on 1 instructors. Some are for educational reasons and some are for behavior problems. Ask for the number of behavior specialists, CARES, and all of those types. You'll faint. Starting getting your FOI requests ready though cause you wont get public information they dont want you to have without filing. Youd think with a fulltime public information person you could get information.
Remember to ask for number of Dean of Students. They are paid as teachers but have no classes. They are discipline people in the office in secondary schools and added to schools like Pinehurst and Prince Street this year without public knowledge. Public was told classroom positions cut but not that these were added. Slick.
Beezer, what does the Capital Improvement money have to do with the Maintenance of Effort money?
When the whole funding issue came up, it was reported that Wicomico is second from the BOTTOM in per-pupil spending. I am sure that this information is somewhere for the taking. I just haven't looked. Since Salisbury, the county seat and largest city in Wicomico, bills itself as "Crossroads of Delmava," and since Wicomico is home to two colleges, one of the largest hospitals in Maryland, and several hundred doctors, we have to be an example and provide one of the finest educational systems in the state. Obvioualy, we cannot do that while losing several million dollars a year in education funding.
2:18, in defending larger class sizes, you compare us to several Asian countries. I have worked in education all my life, and am presently working on a volunteer basis in an ESL program. It is well known that Asian youngsters have been reared to prize education. To receive a poor grade, for example, is a disgrace for an Asian kid. We have a very large Asian population in Wicomico, particularly Korean, with whom I am working, and any teacher will tell you that they are eager to learn. No, it's impossible in most American schools to have 35 in a class.
Wouldn't it be wonderful, if it were as easy as you state.
But when dealing with governments and mandates things are not quite so simple.
Perhaps you could better serve cutting of the budget by spending time with teachers and students in various county schools. The cutting of your budget proposals would change drastically, I believe.
2:18 The countries you mention revere learning and feel blessed for the opportunity to do so. The United States of Entitlement does not, in fact the notion that school is dumb and boring is promoted. We are a nation of ungrateful lazy leeches.
I know a switchboard operator for the gov that makes $70,000 a year. Your comparisons are incorrect.
What a joke to think that the thousand plus educators in the district are "teachers". Many of them are not in a traditional classroom. These people are the surrogate parents working their hind parts off trying to make up for what the people who created this children are not doing. There isn't enough money in education, PERIOD! People think that just throwing money towards it is what works, take programs allow them to be in place for a prolonged period of time and allow for time to run its course, that's how research based practices are designe, along w/ parental support. Stop blaming educators, look in the mirror and start accepting responsibility for your neglectful actions!!!
I wouldn't say people are anti-teacher. They are the ones that parents deal with on a daily basis. It is easy to blame them, I know, I have. Not until you realize that they are only following "orders" will your hatred shift to those in charge.
Looks as though any increase in student to teacher ratio is going to result in dramatic savings for the BOE.
Whether or not it is 16/1, 18/1, 20/1 - the bottom line certainly looks a lot better than not doing anything at all. I say go for it.
The federal government mandates Special Education services be delivered by certified special education teachers. So your 25/1 ratio won't work, because many special needs students have mandated hours of support, meaning they must be in a class with a special education teacher and a regular teacher for so many hours a week, usually 5 (1 core class) or up to 20 (all 4 core classes).
So unless you want 50 kids in a class, you won't get to your 25/1 ratio in many classes. And since more than 15% of Wicomico County students are diagnosed with special education needs, those Special Education teachers aren't going anywhere.
The county also has to serve students who need care of basic living function like diaper changes, feeding and even injections of medications. And it has to be a certified Special Education teacher. Yes, this county has the charge of educating students, until the age of 21, who are nonverbal, can't feed themselves and still use diapers. Now, how's a ratio of 25/1 going to work in that classroom?
Then there's the various mandated therapists the county MUST hire, like vision specialists and speech therapists to provide support with those students with physical disabilities. In many cases, they can be helped and actually graduate, but that doesn't happen without people, and qualified people cost money.
Add in smaller ratios for your English Language Learner classes (formerly English As A Second Language) and the Emotionally Disturbed classes for students so crazy you don't WANT them in regular classrooms (but the county still has to educate, thanks to federal and state law) and there's more staff you simply must have at a ratio lower than your ideal 25/1.
As far as capping teacher pay at $55,000, good luck getting anyone to stay in the classroom for more than a few years. With graduate degrees mandated to keep a teaching certificate, and less and less support from administration in dealing with problem students and their enabling parents/grandparents/guardians, teachers simply won't stay for that level of income when the private sector would be offering more. Do you think Perdue or other corporate employers cap pay at such a low level for holders of MBA degrees or other master's degrees? Of course they don't.
Next is the old canard that teachers only work during school hours. So, I guess all those papers grade themselves, huh? And all those phone calls to parents are made before 3:00 pm? And that gradebook never gets touched after 3:00 pm or on a weekend? No lesson plan is ever devised or improved on a weekend? It's a ridiculous claim to say teachers only work during the school day and you know it.
To address, the Dean of Students complaint, the Dean of Students position is necessary just to deal with the sheer number of disciplinary referrals generated by those ages 11-18. Class cutting, swearing loudly in class, refusal to do any work in class, all must be dealt with by an administrator, each one requiring a conversation with the student and an attempt at a phone call home. Bennett has 1,400+ kids, Parkside 1,300+ and WIHI 1,200+. How many referrals do you think are generated in a day? If you think an assistant principal or two with a principal is enough to run a school with 1300+ teenagers and staff of nearing 100, think again.
I'm not saying there isn't waste at the BOE. Hand any teacher who's been here a few years the actual organizational chart of the BOE and I bet they could slice off 20% with no impact on instruction.
But the idea that we can just get rid of HALF our teaching staff in Wicomico County (or even one quarter of it) is ludicrous and shows complete ignorance of what it takes to educate 13,000 children from kindergarten to high school graduation or age 21.
Some of these other countries do not provide a free education for ALL students like we do here. You are also forgetting about the Phys Ed teachers, music, art, band, strings, CTE teachers, TAD, media center specialists, health, computer and all of the other specialty teachers. These all count towards that student to teacher ratio. If you think you can walk into a classroom and see a ratio of 14 to one..... You're smokin crack! Class sizes are from 20 in primary school up to 35 in middle and high school.
To 3:10 Posting - Who are these guys.
I believe some of SBYnews staff are CIA, ex-CIA, or were officiers in the military. As you can probably tell - they are very well prepped for propaganda warfare. I agree with you though - they must be military.
Many of the countries you speak of do not provide free education to everyone. Education is a privilege not a right and so it is seen as such. I would gladly teach a class of 30 who want to learn and who come from families where education is a priority.
Reference 2: 18
Go tell that to the Chinese, Japanese, Tiawanese, Indians - they are turning out some of the brightest people in the entire world.
I say implement the adjustment and go with it.
The Chinese do not educate all their children in the same way. If a child misbehaves or simply is not smart enough they are sent to a differnt school. Then you are left with the top students in their "public"schools system and the results are amazing
Wicomico county has one of the LOWEST per pupil spending in the state of Maryland.
If anything we need more teachers. Research shows that smaller class size is more effective
This is all so silly, based on very little actual knowledge. You have no idea how many hours teachers work off the clock, so your comparison with an engineer's hours is silly. You are pro-capitalist, except when it comes to teachers, who must have their salary cap off at a max of $55,000 (based on . . . what?). Sounds anti-capitalist to me! You have never experienced the difference between teaching 35 students vs. 25. You don't account for differences in type of classes (ever try to teach a chem lab of 35? Of course not, because you haven't ever taught). You just made stuff up on #s alone. Well, let me take a stab at it with exactly the same thinking: the police force is expensive. I say we should have 1 officer for every 17,532 citizens. Just seems like a good number. Cap their salary at $35,000, because they also get free guns and bullets. Think of the taxpayer savings!
Shock me and actually let this comment be posted.
There were ALWAYS 36 kids in my class in grades K-8, and about the same, maybe 30 in high school. With no air conditioning!!! We walked to school or rode bikes one mile and DID NOT DIE! We graduated, got jobs, and are still making our lives work today! A-M-A-Z-I-N-G!!!
Beezer.....no disrespect but it is your post. It is up to you to do your homework and find out how many special ed kids there are and how many title I and spec ed teachers there are. If you want to smear the board, dind it on your own.
I enjoy my summer's off on the taxpayer's dime. What a life! I think it's about time for an increase in salary next year. I love it, you don't get your way on the Council's BMS vote, so now you are targeting the schools everyday on hers.
I posted earlier that Wicomico was second from the bottom in per-pupil funding. Only Caroline is lower among the state's 24 sub=divisions, but Caroline meets the required local spending. Wicomico is $1000 BEHIND the amount the state requires. We are, by far, in the worst shape in the entire state! I had no idea it was this bad! What a disgrace~
This information is available by googling Maryland per=pupil spending.
I have to say when I went to school in Wicomico county I went through grades 1-12 and graduated from Wi Hi. We never had a classroom with a 20/1 ratio. We always had 30 to 35 students in a classroom. And we learned a lot more than the kids are learning today. And yes our classmates are thr Doctors, Judges and Lawyers you see here in Salisburey today. So I do not believe the kids would get any less education today because of tht ratio. I believe the problem is the kids don't want to learn. Sure some come from single parent homes. But the problem is the parents don't discipline kids today. And then the school doesn't discipline them either. I realize it is very hard being a teacher in today's society. But most of todays teachers were brought up with no discipline either so they really did know what they were getting into. I know of teachers in the inner city that walk down the halls and get stabbed by students.
The teacher tries to teach but the kids do nothing in class or for homework. When the teacher fails the kids. The teacher is called into the office and told you can't fail this many kids. The teacher responds but they don't do anything. And then the Principal says I can't help that but you can't fail this many kids. The teacher quit teaching school and is driving a truck now. Because he couldn't take it anymore. But when I was in school if you got sent to the Principals office too many times you got the paddle and then when your parents found out you got paddled again at home. Say what you will but the kids knew how to act in school and in public because if they didn't they got a paddling when they got home. That my friend is discipline, There has not been a child ever born that didn't need a paddling sometime just to teach them right from wrong . And a lot of times for their own good. You tell kids today don't touch that stove it will burn you they touch it anyway because they don't mind their parents, Tell a kid don't run into the street you might get hit by a car they run into the street and get killed all because they aren't disciplined to mind their parents.
There are many things to consider when computing the student teacher ratio. Even though it shows as being that low, many class sizes are still at 30 and above in the county. As required by law, special education, ELL and other subgroups are required to have greater one-on one assistance, therefore the ratio will compute to be low as you say. That however does not mean teachers do not have a huge ratio such as they do now more that ever.
a post like this only goes to show one thing. That is the author has no idea how the public school system is structured and funded today. I would encourage you to file those foia requests, and collect lots of data. Then, take a class in school law. Get very familiar with federal laws (specificially NCLB, IDEA), then get very familiar with md laws. Once you understand the constraints imposed by them, then your analysis will be reasonable.
Once again, if only the public knew how much money was spent on how few people.
Wow, I would love to have 20 kids in my room. Your numbers are dramatically flawed. My classes have 29, 32, 28, 27, 32 and 30...I like your thinking, my job would be so much easier with the numers you suggest.
I'm thinking we should be paid miltary with all the benefits. The last few years we do battle daily. I love my job, don't even mind the big classes when they are good kids. Perhaps if all of you started fighting for the right of your child to learn in a quiet, safe school and demanding to get the problem students out we would see massive improvements in grades. So much time and money is spent on students who should be locked away. Fight for your kids and grandkids, fight for their education and safety and stop this endless teacher bashing please.
To 5:04 Commenter - LOWEST per pupil spending in State of Maryland
Well look at the employment rate index - we're ranked 22nd out of 24of having the highest unemployment rate. The only counties that have a higher unemployment rate is Dorchester, Worcester.
Bottom line is all of our jobs have vanished. Only thing left is retail sales - and there is not much money there.
To 3:32 Statement that it is impossible to have larger classroom sizes here in US verses China, Korea, etc.
I believe you are missing the point. We have to recondition our fellow countrymen to change their traditional ways of thinking. It hasn't been all that long since I graduated from college, but I can tell you that the foreign students are light years ahead of our US counterparts. I brought myself up to their standards and even surpassed them. So can our US school systems. It can be done. Our K-12 educational system has been broke for sometime. The whole system needs to be overhauled ASAP.
Wicomico offers the leadership you've read about this blog, low per pupil spending, and rivals Baltimore City in discipline issues. Here's how we've been treated: Wicomico contract with teachers covers involuntary transfers: done on a seniority basis, administrator has to hold meeting to discuss with teacher, people on list asking for transfers to be given first consideration. This summer, eleven p.e. teachers were transfered involuntarily with no regard to seniority, done over the phone not by school principal but by supervisor who retired that same day, and people asking for transfers into many of those jobs were not considered. If you think they should all protest, reread the blog. Yes, we'll be attracting lots of people to teach here.
If you don't want business as usual email your Board members to oppose Dr. Fredericksen's renewal. If all of this is OK with you, do nothing and there will be four more years of it.
I would easily invite anyone to spend the day with a teacher. They would then see the hardwork that goes on. With all of the mandates tied to vision 2015, teachers barely have time to teach let alone plan ( in a formal typed outline. People who blast teachers make me sick and if you are complaining about all of the perks, why don't you start to teach.....by the way, I noticed that joe hasn't commented on any of his threads like he normally does. It is a shame because I really like and respect sbynews.
Beezer, do you live in Wicomico County? Do your (or did your) children attend school in Wicomico County?
I glean from your post that your answer is "NO" or else you were (are) one of those parents who was not involved in your children's education. You should have more general knowledge of the ins and outs of educating students than your post shows, if you involved yourself to get true clear facts BEFORE writing an article on BOE budget cutting.
I do give you credit for the comments you have posted from viewers, showing why your budget cutting proposals will not work. Seldom does that happen on this web-site.
8:00 Posting I agree
He hasn't shown me much in the way of leadership either. I would have expected much more of him, and, to have submited his fiscal plan by now. But no - he holds meetings around the county and ask for public comment on savings like turning off lights, reduction in copy cost - where the savings are peanuts.
I do not believe his contract should be extended. There is really nothing driving this man.
This retired teacher thanks you, 8:21, for telling it the way it is. Teaching is one of the hardest jobs that exist. There are so many more demands than there were when I retired. All the mandates stifle much of the creativity that teachers used to be able to have. All of these "knowledgeable" commenters ought to spend a day in a classroom. Many high school teachers have 150 or more students a day. Imagine being an English teacher, for example, and dealing with all the papers generated by that many students. Elementary teachers often have no free time just to run to the bathroom. Now factor in all those kids from dysfunctional homes who come every day. Teaching can be rewarding, but it takes a very special person.
Those numbers dont lie. Of course the board can throw all kinds of projections,ratios and percentages to say those numbers are'nt right but they are.
Posting 8:50 - Does Beezer Live in Wicomico County?
Yeap! I have lived here all of my live. I went to Beaver Run, Wi Middle, Wicomico Senior, Wor Wic, & SU. So as the educational veterans would say; I've been in and 'around the pasture'.
Many of my colleagues are presently teaching. By the tone of your commentary - I would describe you as being someone who might be experiencing burn-out - in which case you should consider taking a haitus.
I stand behind the numbers put forth in my commentary. The numerical statistics are compelling - just like test scores.
I do give you credit for the comments you have posted from viewers, showing why your budget cutting proposals will not work.
February 3, 2012 8:50 PM
Did Joe approve the remark, " Seldom does that happen on this web-site." It is a fact that Joe, 99% of the time only approves comments agreeing with his viewpoint. The other 1%, he lets slip through so he can defame the person writing the comment or defame someone mentioned in the comment.
Now lets see if this makes it through or ends up on the cutting room floor.
To 9:25 Post - Reference to Joe removing controversial post.
I can tell you first hand that SBYnews policy is to produce commentary that is,both,fair and balanced. As you can probably tell by this commentary - we have not deleted any post that represents the othersides point of view.
That being said - we do protect our readers from having to read extreme negative outburst including; cursing, profanity, physical threats, etc. - and thus try and delete them. I'm sure that if you've visted this site you have witnessed some of them.
However - other rival medias like The Daily Times - tends to censor their information and thus seeks to promote an agenda - unlike SBYnews.
I hope this helps to clear the air on the submission point of views.
I stand behind the numbers put forth in my commentary. The numerical statistics are compelling - just like test scores.
As Mark Twain said, "There are three types of lies. Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics." You can spin your numbers and the BOE can spin their numbers to make them say what they want. The problem thay people think because they went to school, they know everything there is to know about running a school. Politicians make the laws and they haven't been in a school in 20 years. The public has no idea what really goes on the schools and why they must operate the way they do everyday. Even within the schools teachers don't know what the administrators go through everyday and the administrators have lost touch with how difficult teaching is these days. It has been 25 years since I went to high school and let me tell you things have drastically changed. So don't come on here and say, "When I went to school..." because it is a different world and it is constantly changing, including education.
I find it interesting that there are very few people supporting the superintendents contract renewal. If you're out there, please be heard. Why does he need to be renewed?. There is concrete evidence he has violated state and federal policies and procedures. Speak now supporters.
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