Since 1913, a cross has stood as the centerpiece of the Mt. Soledad Veterans Memorial in San Diego, surrounded by nearly 3,000 granite plaques, individually honoring war heroes from every American war, from the Revolutionary War to Iraq and Afghanistan.
The structure is a 29-foot Latin cross, which was erected in 1954. For much of this time, it was in a city park in the La Jolla neighborhood of San Diego. Then, in 1989, the ACLU filed a lawsuit, arguing that allowing a cross on government land violates the First Amendment’s Establishment Clause. This memorial has been embroiled in litigation ever since.
More
30 comments:
The seperation clause has been taken so far out of context as to what our Founding Fathers Had intended It's meaning for. It has nothing to do with with the government and any religous symbol. It stems from the royalty of England declaring that the only church was to be the Church of England and forcing the people to join and pay a tax to the church, that is what was intended, that the US government could not do the same! Period!
This country is getting out of hand. It is time to build local militias and take our country back.
I wonder what all the Mexicans feel about this , they love the cross and all crosses.
Freedom of religion, NOT freedom from religion. 1:48, spot on! BOO to the courts which upheld this complaint. They need to stick to B on W crime. In fact just deal with crime. This is NOT. It is FREEDOM OF SPEECH.
So, if I'm not mistaken, one of the reason this went to court in the first place is because a Buddhist wanted to also put a memorial on the same land and was denied. When they were denied, Christians, were enjoying their privilege. This article "conveniently" left out those facts.
No one is taking this memorial from veterans AT ALL. We are just not allowing Christians to force their religious iconography upon the public, at the expense of these brave veterans. Really, they should be ashamed of themselves. If they really cared about the veterans, what sort of structure was there would not be an issue, because if wouldn't be about forcing their iconography upon people, it would be about honoring the vets. This is much like Christian "charity" which isn't really about the charity, it is about proselytizing. The giving comes with a price tag (reminds you of the "free" vacation that you have to sit through a time share seminar to get.
If this WASN'T about forcing Christianity upon people, the Buddhists would not have been denied a similar monument honoring the veterans. Unfortunately, the facts pretty much speak for themselves.
Yeah 421, because it just makes too much sense to elect officials throught the democratic system who will stand up for these types of issues.
So y don't the judges know this. Vote those assholes out too.
the present administration and appointed federal judges have decided to interpret the constitution to suit their whims and fancies the uninformed elected the incompetent and inexperienced the election was not decided by the working middle clas
To anonymous 7:49
No one is forcing Chritianity on you or anyone else by simply putting up a cross. I would agree that the Buddist, Jews, Agnostics should have a right to place a SYMBOL of their faith there. But a cross does not force any religion upon you nor anybody else except in your own mind. A cross does not force you into a church selected by the elected government. Nor does it force you to read the bible any more than the Star of David forces me to read the Torah! 1:48 a.m.
You cannot pander to one without including them all so leave them all off the property. Leave all religious symbols to the churches to display.
7:49 AM
Aren't Buddhists non-violent to the nth degree? There for a Buddhist would not be in the veterans memorial. So why would they ask to put a statue on the site when they are against war? That does not make sense.
The removal of this cross is about intolerance. People are no longer tolerant of differing ideas. They are becoming small minded and are gathering with people who ONLY back their position.
I am anti organized religion, not anti-god and I personally have no problem with crosses or stars of David or what ever religious symbol you want to use because I am an adult and I know that we are not all the same. Be respectful to your fellow men and women. open your mind to differing views. Try to understand were other people are coming from. We are not all dead yet and the world will not end ever. Pull it together folks.
11:06am Why not? It would simply mean the size would be limited to a certain scale. As stated before no one religion should be limited to a display of faith, just maybe the size of such display. Besides are not the majority of those honored there of the chritian faith? Do we not come from an ideal of majority rule or has it become one of which minority screams the loudest that something is unfair to them? If so then our electorial process is all wrong and unconstitutional based upon that line of thought. The major vote does not count but be sure all are represented by racial, nationality, religion, ect. percentage.
@For all those saying it's not forcing Christianity on people.
Explain why the cross is used in the first place? What is the purpose of using the cross over any other sort of symbol. Why is it this symbol chosen over lets say, a flag? Or an eagle? WHY does it HAVE to be a cross... for what purpose?
December 14, 2013 at 7:49 AM
Why don't you move to Kenya and take the Kenyan with you. People like you are traitors and need a bullet between the eyes.
Anonymous said...
Yeah 421, because it just makes too much sense to elect officials throught the democratic system who will stand up for these types of issues.
December 14, 2013 at 9:13 AM
Huh?
Anonymous said...
You cannot pander to one without including them all so leave them all off the property. Leave all religious symbols to the churches to display.
December 14, 2013 at 11:06 AM
You are in the wrong country moron. You must be an atheist. To stupid to know we live in a Christian nation. Christians are the majority and your comments offend me.
Anonymous said...
@For all those saying it's not forcing Christianity on people.
Explain why the cross is used in the first place? What is the purpose of using the cross over any other sort of symbol. Why is it this symbol chosen over lets say, a flag? Or an eagle? WHY does it HAVE to be a cross... for what purpose?
December 14, 2013 at 1:19 PM
I bet you voted for Obama.
Everything Obama does is a violation of the constitution. Can we get rid of him too?
@5:28 PM
Really? Suggesting my murder because you don't understand reasonable arguments? Suggesting murder because you are frustrated at not being able to comprehend complex ideas?
Suggesting murder for someone exercising their first amendment freedoms?
I am 7:49 am. I am a conservative. Registered republican identifying as libertarian. You accuse me of being other wise because you are weak of mind.
STOP BEING THAT! If you are TRULY conservative, BE BETTER THAN THAT! Stop being the embarassment your post proves you to be!
You espouse to hold the moral high ground, "above" liberals... right? Then BE IT! Don't suggest the murder of someone because they exercise their right to speech.
Posit a coherent argument and be prepared to defend it!!!!
@5:33
My voting history is absolutely irrelevant to this conversation.
And, your attack on me was a very poor ploy in not answering the question posited.
Do you have something of substance or intelligence to offer to the conversation, then I welcome your reply. If not, stop embarrassing yourself with ridiculous nonsensical replies that have ZERO to do with to topic at hand.
This is just wrong, wrong, wrong.
This is a memorial for those that gave their lives for everyone, and because some lame brain, selfish, thoughtless, thankless, and soul-less person(s) can't stand a cross is plain sick. The dead deserve the honor.
That cross has been there a long time and needs to stay in place.
For those responsible for its' removal, karma has a way of coming full circle. If you are so traumatized, don't look at it, or don't go to the memorial. It's obvious you don't believe in anything of value.
What is happening in this country is shameful.
As a Christian and a Republican...hard to argue this one. Pretty clear separation of church and state in our constitution. I absolutely uphold a cross being able to honor our veterans, but Buddhists and any other religious sect should be able to display their symbols as well. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Shame the cross had to come down but hard to argue the overall point.
Joe: Do a survey: What does ACLU stand for?
it is all about the superiority complex Christians have here in America. Guess what, no religion out ranks any other.
No 12:23, I am an American who believes equal means equal.
You mean you're not a 'Murrrrican. :)
December 14, 2013 at 7:49 AM
Buddhists?
Philip Kevin Paulson (1947 – October 25, 2006) was a U.S. Army combat veteran of the Vietnam War who, as an atheist, was the lead plaintiff in a series of lawsuits to remove a Christian cross from a prominent summit in the city of San Diego. He spent seventeen years, starting with a pro se action against the city, then as lead plaintiff, in multiple successful federal court challenges to remove the 43-foot (13 m) high cross from this government owned land. Although removal was favored by successive court rulings, various tactics, including referendums, appeals and finally removing the underlying land to federal ownership prevented removing the cross. On June 25, 2012, The Supreme Court, by denying certiorari, affirmed an appeals court decision that determined that the cross of Mount Soledad was unconstitutional.
@7:11 PM
You seem to miss the point.
This is not about taking a memorial away from the veterans, at all. This is about not letting one religion dominate and force it's symbols on everyone at the expense of these veterans. The memorial could have used any sort of symbol, not just a cross.
And to address the matter that it's "been there a long time". This, is a non argument. Just because you've been doing something wrong "for a long time" doesn't mean you get to keep doing it, or that it somehow makes it right.
I'm all in favor of honoring these vets with a memorial. I not in favoring of hoisting religious iconography upon people at their expense.. which lets face it, is rather cowardly.
This Country is being Run by Secular Liberal Atheist...
Post a Comment