Listen and hear for yourself the emergency personnel conversation pertaining to this accident. A big THANK YOU, to Wayne Barrall for providing this audio.
Sta.15 Scooter MVA 6-19-08.mp3
DelMarVa's Premier Source for News, Opinion, Analysis, and Human Interest Contact Publisher Joe Albero at alberobutzo@wmconnect.com or 410-430-5349
36 comments:
Awesome post with the audio, thank you everyone. The proof is in the pudding. Now it is time for someone to do something about it. Ignoring it is criminal.
Sounds like a bunch of hillbillies on the radi on was that Jeb that had command?
Absolute utter disgust!! That is nothing more than a bunch of under trained overzealous firefighters wanting the glory of saying "hey bob, we contacted trooper 4 and they responded to our crash scene!!! wow, wasn't that cool!!??" They could have put that guy in an ambulance and had him to prmc in five minutes. Someone needs to lose their job over this!!!! What a waist of aviation fuel, manpower, and not to mention the hazard THEY CAUSED to the victim by WAISTING all that time. I am in disbelief!! Classic example of why people have the feeling they do for firefighters and their attitudes in this area.
I'm no expert at these things but it sounds like one big cluster f**k
Just to kinda stop the flame before it really gets going, it really doenst matter who had command of the incident, the paramedic on scene is in charge of patient care, not the FF in command. If the paramedic decided that what was best for the patient was to not move them, then why would someone with no training try to argue with them days after the incident. Furthermore, once Trooper 4 arrived, with another paramedic, he/she to decided it wasnt safe to move the patient at that time. Once they deemed it safe to move the patient, they then move him/her to the helocopter and got them to the hospital.
Monday morning quaterbacking an incident like this is ridiculous. Unless you or I were on scene you/I have no clue exactly what the hell was going on. However, unless you are a paramedic, and have spoken to either of the paramedics involved in this incident, then you should probobly keep your opinions to yourselves. These people go through a extreme amount of training to be able to do what they do.
Who gives a crap if they sound like rednecks on the radio, look in the mirror sometime, or listen to the scanner for a while, every FD on the shore sounds like rednecks, if someone doesnt like that, well, there is a big ole bay bridge, and you are welcome to carry your ass back over it.
wow...sounds like Mr. Perry himself wrote that...By the way i am a Paramedic, and still think you should have your card pulled for this nonsense. Apparently you cant do your job, if you had to wait for another paramedic
Okay, 8:26, I understand where you are coming from, but the problem is/was, that Trooper 4 was contacted and took forever to get off the ground. If the Paramedics on the ground got him stable enough for transport by helicopter, then he should have been stable enough for ambulance transport. It also sounded like they had Trooper 4 called well before anyone arrived on scene. I'm not arguing with the veracity of having called Trooper 4, but what is an abomination is the fact it took FOREVER for them to show up. Therein lies the problem. Someone tell me if I'm reading this wrong, but that seems to have been the consensus on what the concern was.
who is mr perry that you speak of, and you sir sound like one of the pissed off members of allen that i heard quit thier post.
Teacherlady not only is there and issue with Trooper 4 but there is an issue with their scene time. They were on the scene for over 45 minutes themselves and that is rediculous. If these people were so highly trained as 8:26 indicates then the patient should have been packaged when the Trooper got there and then the patient should have been immediately assessed and flown to PRMC. Staying on the scene longer that necessary is neglegent. There is nothing the Trooper Medic could have done to improve the patients vialbility. Airway? Handle enroute. This patient was not entrapped and should have been rapidly assessed and immoblized on a back board and immediately transported to the appropriate facility. This paramedic on the ambulance with the "extreme amount of training" should have been packaging the patient, but he wasn't he was spending his time talking on the radio. Listen to the audio 8:26. Your post (8:26) leads me to believe you were intimately involved with the incident. For the patients sake and yours I hope he has a good outcome.
Anonymous said...
Joe,
I don't know who the responding fireman or the ambulance attendant was or their level of EMS training therefore I can't comment on their actions or lack thereof. I do know that the State Trooper Paramedics that have Helo duty are some of the finest Paramedics we have in the state. The State Trooper Paramedic would have taken charge of the situation and the patient on arrival. If they were on the ground with the patient that long after arrival I feel sure that there was good reason and that the patient was receiving the best of care. We don't know if the patient was properly packaged - ie stabalized, boarded, airway controlled, bleeding controlled, etc. prior to their arrival or if they had to do (or re-do) any or everything. The State Trooper Paramedics have close oversight and their time on the ground has to be justified. Only untrained individuals swoop and scoop then hope for the best not aware of uncaring as to the additional damage they can do by moving the patient without proper immobilization and bandageing. The time taken on the ground can mean the difference between a patient being delivered to the Emergency Department alive and having a potential for a quality of life, or arriving dead or without the possiblility of any quality of life. If I were in an accident and had the choice of waiting for the State Trooper Paramedic or being transported "as is" I would be electing to wait fot the State Trooper Paramedic.
8:00 PM
To the intelligent moron that made this post you need to do some research and educate yourself. Don't worry I've done some for you.
Medical News: Emergency Medicine
Aggressive Paramedic Care Holds No Benefit for Trauma Patients
By Michael Smith, North American Correspondent, MedPage Today
Published: April 22, 2008
Reviewed by Zalman S. Agus, MD; Emeritus Professor
University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine.
OTTAWA, April 22 -- Advanced life support by paramedics in the field -- endotracheal intubation and intravenous fluid management -- does not improve survival in trauma patients, researchers here said.
Most urban areas in the United States and Canada offer prehospital advanced life support for critically injured patients, but the relative effectiveness of the care "has not been clearly established," Dr. Stiell and colleagues said in the April 22 issue of the Canadian Medical Association Journal.
To explore the issue, the researchers conducted an analysis of trauma patients' survival before and after a system-wide switch in 17 cities in Ontario from basic life support programs by paramedics to advanced life support.
The so-called Ontario Prehospital Advanced Life Support (OPALS) project has already shown that the change offered no benefit for patients in cardiac arrest, but significantly improved outcomes for patients in respiratory distress, the researchers said.
Go here to read more on this research:
http://www.medpagetoday.com/EmergencyMedicine/EmergencyMedicine/tb/9200
11:20, Thanks for the clarification. There were some parts of the scanner tape that I couldn't hear. Yes, the fact that they were on scene for 45 minutes is horrible. Even worse was the fact the patient was on the scene for that length of time. I still think that at some level this goes back to a training issue and finding out why it took so long for Trooper 4 to get on the scene. Am I making any sense?
teacherlady you are making sense. One thing to remember is that the patient was on the scene well over and hour. Listen to the time stamps on the tape again. Wicomico Central acknowledges most things with a time check. It has already been established that the wannabe paramedic from Allen is incompetent. The fact that the "Highly Trained" trooper medic stayed on the scene for 45 minutes or longer is unacceptable and that person should be reprimanded and sent through remedial training.
Why did it take so long for Trooper 4 to get to the scene? First the patient is involved in the "accident" and no telling how long before someone calls 911 for help. Central then gathers that information and processes it before dispatch which seems like and eternity. Then there is the dispatch to the station. The personnel on the ambulance has to wait for a driver. Start the ambo and respond to the scene. Discussion held about the availability of Trooper 4. A call is made to SYSCOM in Baltimore and availability is determined. Central goes back to the responding yahoo's and lets them know. They say ok and another phone call is made back to SYSCOM. SYSCOM then calls the hanger and processes the information for their dispatch. The flight crew has to get ready and then they hook up the chopper to a small tractor and pull it out of the hanger. At that time the engine is warmed up for several minutes and then they have clearance to take off. After they are in the air and headed in the direction of the incident they make radio contact with the Hillbillies on the ground and the Hillbillies can't agree on an appropriate landing zone. Finally they find one and the Hillbillies on the ground are waving their arms and jumping up and down with excitement like they have fleas in their pants and the chopper lands. At that time all the Hillbillies on the ground start to High Five each other belly slam each other just as if they scored a touch down in a flag football game. At that point the Hillbillies roll out the red carpet and bow to the presence of the Sky Gods and then blow there loads. Finally the Flight Medic gets to make patient contact. Do you get the point now?
I see what you mean, it seems like there are so many steps. Why get B'more involved? Why can't the middleman be cut out. The more time a patient is away from competent medical care, the more likely there is to be permenant problems.
As far as the high fiving is concerned--it would seem to me that they want to show off the toys, rather than get the person to the hospital. If it were me, I wouldn't want to be waiting FOREVER for a chopper. Get me the hell to the hospital. If I need to go to Shock Trauma, then the copter can be called. I can be getting my medical attention, rather than waiting for a bunch of yahoos who want nothing better than to watch the copter take off and land.
Point is, the system is broken, how can we fix it?
Teacherlady said...
Point is, the system is broken, how can we fix it?
7:23 PM
Vote for the right people in office. The council of 7 dwarves won't fix it and neither would the previous councils. They would rather through money at the problem and put a band aid on it instead of fixing the problem. They are afraid to fix the problem because they don't want to ruffle any feathers. They are afraid that fixing the problem would be political suicide. They want those votes!
Mr. Perry, isnt he the same one that had an ambulance call sometime back and when a volunteer arrived to drive the ambulance he told the volunteer not yet because he wanted to wait for his friend from the trailer park on upper ferry road to arrive and ride? If you have a competent driver there is no need to wait around for other people who are 6 or 8 minutes away.
Who is Mr. Perry? Name names!
I believe the only Mr. Perry working for Allen FD is Joe Perry. You should be able to call Allen FD to verify that.
Anonymous said...
I believe the only Mr. Perry working for Allen FD is Joe Perry. You should be able to call Allen FD to verify that.
11:47 AM
It sounds like the Allen FD is slumming. Don't they do a back ground check on the people the "hire?" What a shame to just put a body in a position just to get "grant" money from the county government. The county government throws so much money at the fire departments and they have no say over how it is used. It is painfully obvious that they don't care how that money is used.
Does anyone know the reason why tropper 4 was called? I heard it may have been for the patient to be RSIed. Is a paramedic on a unit able to RSI? I am unsure.
On a side note, anyone riding a Motorcycle, Scooter, Bycicle, 4wheeler, etc, please wear a helmet. May not look cool, but they do work.
I believe Salisbury has a female paramedic with the same credentials. She goes to cardiac calls empty handed and upset she had to get out of bed for a SHIT call.
Anonymous said...
Does anyone know the reason why tropper 4 was called? I heard it may have been for the patient to be RSIed. Is a paramedic on a unit able to RSI? I am unsure.
2:55 PM
It doesn't matter if the patient had to be RSI'ed (rapid intubation with paralyzing drugs)or not. Staying on the scene for over an hour with a Priority 1 trauma patient is gross negligence and criminal. A simple Bag Valve Mask by a basic EMT is all that is needed. Transport the patient to the hospital as safe and effecient as possible. If the patient needed RSI then the patient could have recieved RSI when they arrived at the hospital with a transport time of less than 15 minutes.
Allan FD just dispatched to assist their mother station's ambulance in Somerset County for a child that has fallen. After the paramedic unit responded the 911 center secretly told them on the med radio that all they needed was a pediatric hare traction splint. WTF?? That is a serious waste of fuel and taking a paramedic unit out of it's first due ambualance district.
Are you refering to a Female Paramedic bitching about getting out of bed when working on Salisbury Time, or is this a Paramedic working for Allen that also works in Salisbury. No one likes getting up for BS calls but if its your job then do it or go elsewhere.
Does somerset county reimburse wicomico county for allens ambulance going to princess anne all the time like they do for salisbury going into the county?
Anonymous said...
Does somerset county reimburse wicomico county for allens ambulance going to princess anne all the time like they do for salisbury going into the county?
4:59 PM
No Somerset County or the Princess Anne Volunteer Fire Company does not reimburse Wicomico County for responses in their county.
Does anyone have the figures and locations for Allens amublance responses? My guess is that 99% of Allen's ambulance calls are in Somerset County and that is not fair to the tax paying citizens in Wicomico County who foot the bill for the Allen Fire Department. Someone should do an accountiblity audit on Allen to find out where all that money is going.
Are you refering to a Female Paramedic bitching about getting out of bed when working on Salisbury Time, or is this a Paramedic working for Allen that also works in Salisbury. No one likes getting up for BS calls but if its your job then do it or go elsewhere.
This female paramedic is paid from Salisbury. Very unprofessional, a terrible attitude and does not need to be working around sick people.
I do not understand a BULLSHIT call. If someone calls the ambulance for a cardiac patient...I would not consider it a bullshit call. When they experience difficulty breathing they are not trained to know what is happening to them. The last thing they need is a smartass paramedic arrive to help them.
Anonymous said...
Are you refering to a Female Paramedic bitching about getting out of bed when working on Salisbury Time, or is this a Paramedic working for Allen that also works in Salisbury. No one likes getting up for BS calls but if its your job then do it or go elsewhere.
This female paramedic is paid from Salisbury. Very unprofessional, a terrible attitude and does not need to be working around sick people.
6:07 PM
If she is such a bad person then why did Deputy Chief Hoppes prouldly promote her to Public Information Officer for the Salisbury Fire Department?
A bad paramedic with that kind of attitude is the spokesperson for the Salisbury Fire Department? Something is terribly wrong here. You people must be kidding.
A "bullshit" call would be the nursing home calling 911 at 3 am because uncle joe pulled his cath out and lifestar cant be there for 2 hours. Or the person that fell around 9am and the nursing home waits until 2 am to call an ambulance.
Anonymous said...
A "bullshit" call would be the nursing home calling 911 at 3 am because uncle joe pulled his cath out and lifestar cant be there for 2 hours. Or the person that fell around 9am and the nursing home waits until 2 am to call an ambulance.
10:06 PM
EXACTLY! A total abuse of the Emergence 911 system.
8:50..I can think of alot of people who were promoted and didn't deserve a promotion!!
Go back and drink some more cookies and milk moron.
If she is such a bad person then why did Deputy Chief Hoppes prouldly promote her to Public Information Officer for the Salisbury Fire Department?
I bet you won't be the next one PROULDLY promoted. Where did you learn how to spell? Oh I get it..she must have taught you.
It's 12:50 pm on Monday afternoon and Allen's ambulance gets dispatched to Princess Anne at Manokin Manor Nursing Home. Imagine that! I pity someone in Allen that needs an ambulance. See where your tax money is going!
Okay so maybe the incident that happened didn't follow protocol....but how many of you were there to act differently. None of you. Im not saying I agree with the situation but the truth is if your weren't there then you have no idea what the real circumstances were; with or without the dispatch time stamps. Paramedics and firefighters make mistakes every day and so do a whole bunch of other people so why push it. Its a thankless job and the only thing you can do is do your best for the patient. So in less you have any idea what that pertains to or in less you were on the scene i think you should keep your should have and could have's to yourself. Just be thankful that when you call 9-1-1 someone responds and the majority of the time its a volunteer.
And furthermore, why does it matter if allen's ambulance responded to somerset county to help. Its call second-due and chances are that princess anne was busy running other calls. I highly doubt they were just sitting at the station as allen went to Manokin for a call.
regarding this call trooper 4 was called to rsi the patient due to the airway being compromised. the jaw was locked shut and an airway adjuct couldn't be utilized. not an oral or nasal due to head trauma. the paramedics on scene were using a bag valve mask to ventilate the patient however if the airway isn't open it will not improve the patients blood oxygen saturation and the paitient will not survive anyway. they did have to extricate the patient which took time and started trooper 4 due to the airway issue. when using rsi drugs it relaxes the muscles in the body and essentially paralizes you. once trooper 4 arrived they did rsi the patient and the jaw unlocked once the drugs started to work. an airway was established and secured. the patient was extricated and transported to PRMC. if you don't have a secure airway your essentially dead. your brain will not get enough oxygen that it needs. EMS is all about judgement calls, whether the public agrees with them or not. you have seconds to make a life or death decision and to live with it. many of us could not even place ourselves into that position. so maybe with this piece of information you will understand why trooper 4 was called. paramedics on the eastern shore with the exception of ocean city are not allowed to utilize rsi. that airway needed to be secured and at the time that was the only way to do it.
with everything goin on in pittsville does this ring a bell. The county needs reform, whatever happen with the paramedic on this call. More needs to be investigated
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