ATTN. MR. COMEGYS!!!!!! If you'll recall on Monday night during the City Council Meeting I got up there and asked about a Ladder Truck only having a 15 year life span for $1,200,000.00. I went on to ask, does the Ladder Truck need to go out on almost every call?
Granted, I was not on this scene for this p[articular fire, so I don't know who's Ladder Truck this is but my point should be well made and absorbed right here.
Come On Now, a Ladder Truck at a shed/garage fire? This is exactly why Salisbury and other surrounding Fire Departments need to have more experienced professionals running these Fire Departments.
Oh, I'm sure they'll have every excuse in the world like, it was so windy, you never know if it would have hit a taller 2 story building next door and we needed a Ladder Truck just in case. I don't care what their BS excuse is, these are Boys with bigger Toys!
Man up and face it, this is a waste of serious taxpayers money and I just wonder who was in charge. Was See & Gordy there? Did THEY call in for a Ladder Truck? Come on, let's get the real story up here and see who's accountable for this kind of stupidity.
40 comments:
Joe,
Most of the time, a fire is dispatched as a "Structure Fire". There is no indication whether it is a shed, or whether it is a three story house with multiple occupants.
Because of this, the minimum response to a "structure fire" should be four engines, two trucks, one special service, and a battalion chief. It seems like a lot, and is for a shed fire, but most of the time it is unclear as to what is on fire.
Also, there are plenty of fires which warrant the need of a ladder truck. Truck work needs to occur simultaneously with putting water on the fire. It's safer for the occupants of the residence, the men and women fighting the fire, and results in faster extinguishment (meaning less damage to the structure).
Here's my opinion. The taxpayers pay a HUGE amount of money for these chase vehicles, first response vehicle or as Hebron would have it, death trap vehicles that are there to get the upper management to the scene FIRST.
You send out a standard crew and once the Upper Management arrives and assess the fire, THEN they can call in for a ladder truck.
Are you telling me 911 does ASK if it's a house fire, where is the fire in the house, it this a high rise, what floor are you on and all that crap? If not, then they too are very stupid. How do they determine who and what to send.
Again, no mention of if See or Gordy was there, I expected that. However, I'd still like to know because these two are the head of the Fire Department and I want to know who was there and or who they trained to call in a Ladder Truck?
I guess you didn't see the house that has all the siding burned of it.
Joe, all due respect, but I don't agree with you on this fire issue. I have said it before.... If I have a fire at my farm, I want every fire engine, and every fireman (volunteer and paid) from Stevensville to Ocean City and from Dover to Cape Charles to respond. I HAVE seen what fires can do in the first few minutes. Every second counts. If you get to the fire and then find that you need a ladder truck and have to wait 10 more minutes for it to get there, it's too late.
farm boy
Joe,
As I am not familiar with the call, I cannot comment on how the company was dispatched. Many times, however, the fire is called in by a passing motorist, simply reporting they saw a house on fire (or shed, or structure, or whatever). As I'm not familiar with the call, I can't comment on what happened here.
Also, as far as the chief/command vehicles go, it too depends. The dispatch is put out, and the fire company responds accordingly. Once the first arriving officer(either on an engine, a truck, or in a chief's vehicle) is on-scene, they will establish command. From here, the officer will either reduce the response, or he can upgrade it (this is very simplified, but you get the idea).
The other problem on the fire-ground is manpower. If a truck was already enroute, the officer may have decided to keep them en-route. In most districts, and with most mutual aid agreements, the goal is to have a truck on the road and arriving roughly the same time as the first-due engine. If the truck was close when the first officer arrived, he may have wanted the truck to continue in for manpower.
Fires and their response are highly dynamic and variable. In this case, it's highly likely that the ladder truck was close, and the officer in charge (OIC) wished to use the crew for either extinguishment or overhall.
Dave See and Bill Gordy were not there. Brian Records was in command. Im sure he will man up and post something here soon to set you straight because you never have a clue when it comes to the fire service....
You know I'm no firefighter, but personally I have to side with anonymous 9:31 on this one.
Given the fact that a fire can spread quickly through many of our older buildings and even some new ones, sending a ladder truck after the initial crew assesses the situation and calls for the backup as you suggest could cost heavily in both property and lives.
Most structures aren't built to withstand a fire for more than an hour and usually it takes much less time to consume the building. I'd rather err on the side of caution and have the ladder truck available at the scene if needed.
See or Gordy were not there it was what we call the troops that where there,we lost one building and we where not going to lose anything more than that.
You know what JA if you think the SFD is so bad why don't you hire people to prove us wrong instead of acting like you know everthing.
What you afraid to show up at a fire scene.
Again, the system is broken. However, I have to agree with one of the comments when a driver by sees a fire and calls it in. That makes a lot of sense.
I have spoken to several people today about this particular fire and they agree, too many fire trucks, too much equipment. Send them back when you get there.
I will add, I know, understand and respect this is a very serious business. Fires are not our friends in these situations and can get out of hand. However, there's only so much room and you can always call in for more backup.
I believe, and remember, this is MY opinion, that they can better manage these situations.
I'd like to know where in the hell See & Gordy were, while See gets paid the big bucks?
All you have to say is that Records was there and I'll back down VERY quickly. That man is a Pro, we all know that.
While the City prepares to spend $1,200,000.00 on a new Ladder Truck, "I" personally believe they need to be far more careful when they send it out to add 5 to 10 afdditional years to that vehicle and that's my point, in case you're NOT following me.
anonymous 10:13,
Nope, not afraid to be at ANY scene and you should know that by now. You pansies that go under anonymous and act tough, I have proven time and time again, I'll show up and you won't do a thing to me. Just keep acting like tough guys and making fools of yourselves, that's cool with me. Just because someone doesn't agree doesn't make them your enemy, in case you haven't noticed?
Hey, I know, I'll see you Tuesday at the new Fire Station. Do you have a problem with that too?
"All you have to say is that Records was there and I'll back down VERY quickly. That man is a Pro, we all know that."
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Does it matter who was there? Wont you still be pissed because of how many trucks were there or is it because Records is more of a man than you. For the record I know that Brian Records cant stand your ass either!
Your comment is stupid Joe. Either your mad at something or your not. No matter who had command.
But thats who you work anyways....
The only thing I'll agree with you on regarding the ladder truck is this Joe. The life of one of those pieces can be extended. Use it on calls it's intended for. Building fires and rescues. Those big rigs aren't designed to be ambulance chase units or for picking up burgers or sandwiches at Panera.
You are VERY wrong regarding this incident and quite frankly need to STFU when you post stuff you have no clue about. Get educated about the fire service instead of tearing at the very heart of it every single chance you get.
"You send out a standard crew and once the Upper Management arrives and assess the fire, THEN they can call in for a ladder truck."
Yeah Right. Thats just more delay. How much would you bitch it the fire progressed due to the fact there was not enough help or equipment on the scene sooner. Just because it has a big ladder on it's back does not mean that is all a truck company is used for. Why don't you take a day and visit the fire training center in Princess anne and talk to people who know whats what instead of monday morning quarterbacking shit you have no idea about.
anonymous 10:24, learn how to spell his name, Idiot.
anonymous 10:25, You'd love for me to STFU, wouldn't you? That's what this Blog is all about. I have the right to my opinion and you have to be accountable because, like it or not, you work for me, IF you're a paid Salisbury Fire Fighter?
I pay taxes for your salary and for that equipment, Son. So when I say I don't like seeing all thet equipment there, I don't like it. If you don't like me saying so, join Joe Perdue and create your own Blog against what I say.
In the mean time, Son, stay safe and thanks for all that you do. Doing it better can't hurt.
Oh, Mr. I'm a big Fire Fighter. Go to Princess Anne for training, are you kididng me?
Nah, I'd rather sit back and make millions of dollars making others work for me than risk my life for other people. Oh, that's too hard for you to take, isn't it?
Well guess what fool? MOST people are NOT Firefighters and never would be. I apreciate what you do but I don't have to love it, respect it and die for it.
I'd also rather come home and sleep with my own Wife and not someone elses and or the guys, like many will do in the new Fire Station, or so they hope anyway.
Why not just name that joint the new YMCA? Here's one better. How about calling it the Village People Pad.
I'm just playing. It cracks me up how FIRED UP you guys get. ROTFLMAO!
No need to go on the defensive son. You don't pay my salary and no I don't work for you. Nice try son. Why not, instead of acting as if you know it all regarding all things, why don't you take the time to get educated about what you so freely spout off about? It's not to late for you to learn something Joe and it's not a shame nor are you belittleing yourself by saying, hey, maybe I don't know it all. Perhaps someone can enlighten me. Everyone's entitled to his/her opinion and everyones got one, just like something else. Perhaps the STFU was a little harsh and I am sorry for that. I just wish you'd at least make a small attempt at actually learning something about fire service before you start some of your rants. Thanks.
Joe the Tower is needed for this city BUT the 90,000 that came from the vollies for the pump is not needed for this city because of the engines we have.The vollies gave the money up because they were told if they didn't the money would be taken from them and the ones who voted against it we think would be trashed by Gordy and the Chief which in other words they would not be volunteers anymore.
First, I am no FF or expert and have just recently started reading this blog and find it pure entertainment (and have to say a decent source of news occasionaly). The only thing I would like to say is....Joe, why not buck up and be a man and join the fire dept, may have to be on the other side of the US since no dept around here would have you.
I truly understand your dedication to reporting news quickly and can thank you for that. What I don't understand is why on earth you are such a negative person. Your opinion is yours and you are entitled to that but you truly must be a miserable person.
A simple question as to why a ladder truck was needed would have been enough. And I have to add a "thank you boys for doing a great job" would have been half way decent. I guess the readers would have been too shocked to read something of that nature from you. I only wonder what your opinion would be if it were your family who had the unfortunate tragedy of a fire to deal with.....maybe the job of fighting it should be left to you......oh yea that wouldn't work you just start them to see what kind of response you can get.
My opinion which I'm sure doesn't even begin to count or matter in your world is to EASE UP. Stick to reporting news and maybe we will all cancel our subscriptions to the DT.....that would definitely give you more to write about.
Not scared to sign my name....Sara, Salisbury MD.
Joe,
If you have a problem with a ladder truck on that call, then you have a problem with every fire department in this country when they handle calls like this.
A ladder truck, or truck company, is the "tool box" of the fire department. They carry the tools that cannot be carried on an engine company.
Myself, being a nationally certified Fire Officer 4, working in a fire department that provides protection to a population of 80,000 citizens, would utilize the truck company on this scene for salvage and overhaul, along with checking for extension in other structures nearby.
I understand if you think 1.2 million dollars is an extraordinary amount of money to pay for a ladder truck. But, with the price of raw materials to build the apparatus has sky rocketed in the past few years.
My department bought a ladder tower 3 years ago for $750,000.00. And no, it does not have a lot of "gingerbread". To buy that same 100' ladder tower today, it would cost 1.2 million dollars. We are now engineering the design of an ordinary 100' ladder truck for the price of $825,000.00. When I first started in the fire department in 1982 my fire department purchased a ladder truck for the extraordinary price of $250,000.00.
I remember my chief telling me when I started driving some years later that this piece of equipment costs more then anything that I will ever own. And I am to drive it and take care of it like I can't afford it. Wow, was he wrong about being able to afford it. This ladder truck lasted 18 years. And it was not from a lack of maintenance or misuse. It tested, per NFPA standards, and the frame was rusting in areas that we could not access. Hence the truck was placed out of service permanently. As many calls fire departments run these days, if you can get 15 to 20 years out of a piece of equipment, you are doing quite well.
The public needs to understand. Yes, we do need these tools to do our job. And yes, they do cost extraordinary amounts of money. But I can assure you; the men and women of the fire department are taking care of this equipment and doing their best to make it last for as long as they can. Their lives depend on it.
Respectfully,
MAW
I live very close to where this fire happened, and I was completely surprised that SO MANY fire trucks and vehicles showed up there. It definitely seemed like overkill for a barn/shed fire that was completely under control.
And the ladder went up, and just stayed there, with no need for it and doing no good, with several firefighters just standing around it, chatting.
I truely hope that you will never need the fire department someday. I just don't understand why you have to hate like that. Wow.....
ARE YOU LITTLE KIDS FINISHED ARGUING?
Here's a thought...what an interesting discussion this was. I knew (or frankly, had ever considered) any of this fire-fighting strategy and whatnot. Now I know some, and will pay attention to further future discussions regarding the acquisition of equipment and how it is being used.
ISN'T AMERICA A WONDERFUL PLACE? Isn't an open discussion a healthy thing? Aren't we lucky to have the freedom to call each other names on the internet....maybe that one isn't so great....(What does STFU mean, anyway?)
10:55 so you're saying it was "either you spend it or we'll spend it for you?"
Anon 10:55 you must not have been at the meeting that I was at.. Those words were never spoken and there wasn't a single no vote on the floor.
Joe,
While I respect and enjoy the news you post here every day, I think you got a little off target on this one.
I agree that 1.2M is high for a new truck (trust me I have knowledge about the cost of Fire Equipment). There should be some accountability as to why they want to spend that much money.
Stick to that argument instead of attacking the call of a Fire Officer to have as much equipment there as he/she needs.
Also, I'm glad you made millions of dollars, that's what makes this country great. But to shove that into the faces of your readers comes off as pompous. But you have the right to say what ever you want.
And I have the right to say that the comment about "as Hebron would have it, death trap vehicles" is a low blow even for you.
Thanks
Joe,
Here it is from the horses mouth.
The call was dispatched as a 'Horse Barn Fire'. Enroute to the call Dispatch advised that there was exposure to a house and unknown chemicals were inside the barn.
I was assigned to Paramedic 16 yesterday and had the fortune(or misfortune) of being the first arriving piece at the scene. We could see smoke in the sky from Rt. 50 and Mill St. AC Bryan Records knows there are no hydrants in this area and requested several tankers, immediately. Not knowing the size of the structure, type of chemicals, nor how close the house was to th fire were all reasons for his requests. He also established a 'water supply' draft site at the Riawakin Rd. pond (where a dry hydrant) is located.
As we arrived on scene the barn was well-involved and it was evidenced that a 'defensive' operation was the plan of attack. It was also noted that the wood deck on the rear of the 2-1/2 story home was on fire as well. Might I also add that a third structure was noticed to have its vinyl siding melting as well.
All 3 SFD fire units were at Rose St. and Johnson Pond conducting dive training, however all were ready to respond thanks to off-duty personnel assisting with the training.
Engine 1 arrived and began an attack and protection of the fire spread to the 2 -1/2 story home. They also began extinguishment of the primary fire building. Hebron brought a Tanker and supplied Engine 1 which had hardly put a dent in the situation with it's entire water tank being used. This fire was 'ripping'. Having been on the primary 2-1/2 inch line used for fire attack let me reassure you that it was as hot as any interior fire I have been in, in my 9 years of service.
To make a long story short a tanker from Westside and Mardela were requested by Bryan on his initial request. This makes three tankers additional to the original first alarm response. In many areas this known as a Tanker Task Force or a Tanker Strike Force, so his request is not unheard of or lucrative by any means.
As for Truck 2 responding, the paid crew at Sta. 2 staffs this piece from 0700-1700. They responded, accordingly with Departmental SOPS. Again, what if the response was delayed or conditions worsened and the fire had advanced into the structure. Rescues or ventilation would have been necessary and the Truck makes that a hell of alot easier, more efficient, and effective.
To anon 7:36am The ladder was left in the air because the driver 'set the Truck up' to do it's job (if needed) upon his arrival. This process takes approx. 3 minutes and it doesn't hurt anything to leave it up for an indefinte period of time once it's up.
I hope this clears some misconceptions from a first hand source that WAS there from start to finish. I am sure Bryan will respond later and give his account. I do not intend to speak for him. Joe, I look forward to healthy discussion if you care to.
Also, Kudos to Michael Swartz for 'understanding' the fire service.
Rob Frampton
This incident was dispatched as a horse barn on fire with chemicals inside.Smoke could be seen from Station 16 several miles away. The fire last July in Setters Run was fresh in my mind and I immediately requested tankers from Westside and Mardela. Hebron was on the initial dispatch and responded with two tankers. This is an area where there are no hydrants and you have to find alternative water sources.
When I arrived on scene there was a well involved 40 x 25 barn with a fire ball rolling out 25 ft. The deck attached to the home was burning and the back of the home was smoking. The homes exterior siding was a T 11 style of dry wood. As the incident commander I realized the barn was too far gone and the home was the priority. Firefighters were directed to apply all available water to protect the home from burning. Firefighters placed themselves between the fire and the home to cool it down. Once tankers arrived on scene an aggressive attack was directed at the barn.
The home was saved and the homeowner had high praise for the work of the brave men and women who saved his home. There were no injuries and an adequate water supply was maintained throughout the fire. These facts make the operation a success in my book.
I will always try to stay ahead of the situation and have plenty of water and manpower to do the job. You can critisize me for calling too much, but sue me for not having enough. I'll take the criticism anytime.
Please understand that a ladder truck is assigned to all first alarm assignments for a reported structure fire. It carries tools and manpower to control the fire. Whether it be a vent hole, forced entry or overhaul. The aerial device on top is a tool that gets used about than 20 % of the time. Usually ground ladders are used, but when you need to get to high places it is necessary. The practices of ladder companies are as old as the fire service.
I guess the bottom line is this. You would have to be yesterdays homeowner or the incident commander to understand the total picture of an emergency scene. Thank you for your interest in the fire service.
do you ever think that a piece of fire equipment is also used as a traffic control device. What is bigger and better then a large truck to shut down a road. granted it is pricy for that job but then again if something gets out of control the truck can go from traffic control to man power and equipment power to get the situation under control.
nd once the GUY IN CHARGE arrives and make it available for someone else, in case it's needed. In this case, they extended the ladder, just in case, right? That beoing said, it took 3 minutes to set it up and you're on the West side of Salisbury at this point.
So now you have to wait 3 minutes to get it back to normal. Firefighters would be scrambling everywhere to get out of the freakin way because they're blocking every damn road for at least a 1/4 mile and then you have to deal with driving BACK to where you started from to help someone else out back near the current headquarters.
YOU like to play oput all the "WHAT IF'S" so why shouldn't I?
That few thousand a year you pay in property taxes for your unoccupied building on Main St does not give you the right to condemn everything in the city. All you do is whine moan and complain about everything. Are you not happy with anything, about anything? You are one miserable little man. As they say, misery loves company hence all of your followers. Lighten up, spring is in the air. Live and let live dude.
My close friend and her husband lost their house on Setters court, as Brian stated, and she was there to watch it burn to the ground. So bringing in extra tankers is absolutely brilliant. The ladder truck seems to be a sticking point simply beacause of the cost. It saves lives of residents and firefighters alike. Not to mention helping to save the homes that we all work so hard to have on our "piddly" incomes around here. Instead of squeezing the SFD, lets harshly review all the audits being currently conducted in this horribly managed city. Maybe once we "find" the so-called missing money and mis-managed funds then it could be used in more productive areas. Our FD,zoo, schools and public areas deserve better. The discussion is, however, very stimulating and I enjoy everyones views. I never get this excited over the DT!!!
Brandi
Joe,
In the fire service we handle the emergencies as they come. We all can throw the 'What if's' out there whenever and whereever we want to.
We can't say well leave that here if we need it we will call for it. By then it is too late!
For example, if you go outside to make some repairs to your horse stable wouldn't you take the tools you thought you might need to complete the job (i.e. hammer, nails, screwdriver, etc.)? Now, would you use all of them? Maybe or maybe not? You don't know. But if you got started and realized you needed a drill. Would you probably let out a 'Dammit' and get mad at yourself for not bringing the drill too? I know I would, cause I would hate to walk or drive back to my toolshop to go get it.
You see this applies to the fire service as well, although if we forget to bring a tool with us the first time; people may die, get more sick, lose more property, etc. The public, our customers, do not deserve this. They deserve to have the proper staffed equipped that THEY (you included) pay for.
As a sidenote, later that night we rsponded to a shooting on Fairground Dr. While we were there, I counted atleast 8 police cruisers there. Some city, some county, some state. Is that overkill? I think not, they were there to secure the scene and protect me as well as enforce laws, and apprehend criminals. Now who was left to protect the rest of the city and county that these officers were patrolling? They handled the incident and would have relied on outside jurisdictions should they have needed too.
Also FYI, there was a Ladder Truck at Station 16 to protect the college and Camden Ave. neighborhood during the Barn fire. A piece of crap that is extremely dangerous, allbeit, it was there in the station ready to respond.
Did Kenny B. take those pics?
Rob Frampton
Thanks for that update Rob. I'd also like to thank you and Bryan for being man enough to post your names. I truly respect that.
"if you go outside to make some repairs to your horse stable wouldn't you take the tools you thought you might need to complete the job (i.e. hammer, nails, screwdriver, etc.)?"
You're exactly right. However, I wouldn't bring 7 hammers, 7 screw drivers, you get my drift, I'm sure.
AT least, if the city spends $1.2m for a piece of equipment, even if the price is inflated, they're getting something for the money. Aren't these the same people who flat-out misplaced millions recently? AND, only found out they'd lost it when it was found?
I may be wrong, but when dealing with as dysfunctional a government as this one is, it might be wise to conserve our energy and choose our battles.
BTW, A HUGE THANK YOU TO ALL FIREFIGHTERS, BOTH PAID AND VOLUNTEER. YOU GUYS DO WORK THAT DOESN'T GET ENOUGH APPRECIATION FOR FROM THE PUBLIC. MY FAMILY APPRECIATES EVERY SINGLE MINUTE YOU SPEND DOING THIS IMPORTANT WORK!
Joe,
If you want to Talk About a WASTE of taxpaper money....something should be done with the Reoccuring
"Dumpster" Fires at the "Zoo" which (is the College housing area) off Division St. on Onley Rd.
We've already been called out there a 1/2 dozen times and counting......It is a total waste of taxpaper dollars,manpower ,time and possible injury....due to College Students having a good time...lighting one off....
Something SHOULD be done. Get someone you know involved in RIGHTING the WRONG there.
Thanks
I'm sure Jordy and his upstanding college pals will get that one straightened out.
T2squared said...
Anon 10:55 you must not have been at the meeting that I was at.. Those words were never spoken and there wasn't a single no vote on the floor.
8:46 AM
It was said by an assist chief and trust me there would have been no votes but we followed what he said.
Whats wrong with fixing the ladder on the current trk? You just got 10mil, why didnt you cut out some of that fancy crap from that extreme if you needed a new truck? There's a ton of other things this city needs too, look at the streets, show me 1 road in town that dosent have a pot hole or quick patch! The way this towns been mismanaged what makes you think there will be a town here in a few years? Put away your pride and tighten your belts, prepare for hard times like the rest of us!
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