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A judge ruled Friday the U.S. Air Force was wrong to dismiss Major Margaret Witt for admitting she was a lesbian. The ruling has reopened the debate over the military's "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy.
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26 comments:
As dumb as democrats can be, this is where rep. show how absolutely stupid they can be. A man/woman signs up to fight and possibly die to protect our freedom here at home, but you don't want that person to practice their freedom to live as they choose? All because you disagree with a personal choice between 2 consenting adults. This doesn't smack of outright hypocrisy?
It's more about having someone of sound mind armed with our latest weapons homosexuals are mentally ill.
11:19 Tell that to all the honorable, gay soldiers that have served our country.
It's not a personal choice. If you're going to let a lesbian in a room full of woman to change, you might as well let a man in there. What's the difference?? She likes girls and now gets to be in a place to change and take showers with them?? No different than cutting a man loose in a womans bathroom. Do you think you would feel comfortable with that? It's disgusting to think those of us who are not into checking out other woman should have to worry about if we're changing or taking a shower if they are checking us out. If they want to live that way that's on them, but the rest of us shouldn't have be a part of it.
The military is not some office setting where there's a homophobic idiot harrassing and hurting the feelings of the gay receptionist. And it has NOTHING to do with who's sleeping with whom...its mainly about unit cohesion and discipline and the conduct of warfare. Think about this scenario --- your unit is ambushed and now there's a soldier with a serious wound, laying out in the open, needing rescue. Say its a gay soldier that nobody in his unit wanted to be around...is he going to be saved? How about mouth to mouth to keep him alive? How about dipping your hands in his guts to push them back in? OR, say its the homophobic bully of the unit who is hurt. Is the gay soldier going to risk his life to run out in the open and save THAT guy? The macho culture of the military is NOT the culture of the civilian workplace. Don't act like it is...the GREAT majority of soldiers do not want gay people in their unit. But don't ask and don't tell (and don't reveal it in order "stand up for your right to be gay") is the best solution. I have another idea...why don't we just disband the military, because I understand that they KILL people sometimes and you KNOW....thats not very nice...and wounding them really hurts their feelings....
11:40, the same kind of crap was spouted prior to fully integrating blacks into the military. We see these crack pot theories didn't hold true then either.
let all the gays go to war then. all the straights should boycott enlistment - then see whos majority will win.
Who cares if she is gay or not! Can she do her job? good leave her alone
again the stupidity (and hypocrisy) of the far right shows. I haven't heard a single fact-based argument on the right about this. The best they seem to come with is "gays have cooties".
Don't even try to equate being gay with being black you ignorant idiot!
I think all lesbians should go back to Lebanon !
See what happened to Rome when they let gays in the military!
12:07 That reasoning has been used ad infinitum....mainly spouted by people who have never been in combat, or in the military at all. It's disingenuous. As I said, this AIN'T no office setting. The military is a whole different world. They have a different culture. A complete set of laws (separate from the laws that govern you and I) to rule them. And they are FORCED to operate as a team. Which they have done very well. Even with gay people in their ranks. Sometimes, whether you like it or not, you don't always get to do what you WANT to do. You want to serve your country?? GREAT! Just don't force your morals and lifestyle on a group that wants nothing to do with them. Bet your life there are gay NFL players, but THEY don't say anything about it and you know why? TEAM UNITY AND COHESION. Its natural for all humans to avoid deviant behavior, and its wrong for those who practice deviant behavior to attempt to force others to accept their deviant behavior. (NOTE--- "deviant" does not mean "wrong"). Unfortunately for gay people, there is a stigma attached to their unusual sexual practices and a lot of people --- a WHOLE LOT of people-- think it is immoral, or strange, or BOTH. Keep that aspect of yourself TO yourself and you can serve your country for 30 yrs, no problem.
2:32 That's the problem they want forced acceptance.They have an agenda that has nothing to do with being equal.
The Homosexual Agenda, or homosexual ideology, consists of a set of beliefs and objectives designed to promote and even mandate acceptance and approval of homosexuality, and the strategies used to implement such. This article notes that the goals and means of this movement include indoctrinating students in public school, restricting the free speech of opposition, obtaining special treatment for homosexuals, distorting Biblical teaching and science, and interfering with freedom of association.
Among all the liberal belief systems, the homosexual ideology is the most self-centered or selfish. Liberals generally give much less than conservatives to charity, but gay charity work in particular is virtually non-existent
2:32, we are not ruled by the Taliban. The same constitution that gay servicemen and women fight to protect is the same one that garuntees their right to be gay.
"And they are FORCED to operate as a team. Which they have done very well." Sums it up quite well. The problem is not gays being in the ranks; they are already there. The problem is gays being denied their rights here in the US when they have done more to earn those rights than most of us here.
By the way, any conclusive reports on how allowing gays to serve openly negatively affected unit readiness in any other military? Any significant long-term effect on morale? How about overall fighting capability? Come with some hard evidence son.
And for 1:59, oh yeah, great come back. More of the genius intellect of the constitution-loving (only when it's convenient) right.
All this coming from a straight black male.
Right now there is a law that says if you openly say or let be know that you are homosexual, you will be discharged from the military. Regardless of how one feels about the law, it is still the law of the land. Why should anyone who serves in the military be allowed to say which laws or rules they are or are not going to follow? Just like with illegal imigration, ILLEGAL is still ILLEGAL.
11:40, You are insinuating (that's a big word that means making an assumption) that the men and women in our military are not disciplined and/or intelligent enough to do their job with people they don't like or who they believe are not living in a moral manner. That mentality is a slap in the face to all service-people. They are professionals. They can do their job.
1:59, it is the same thing as desegregation and when they allowed women in the military. The sky will not fall. Our military is the best in the world, and can handle an end to discrimination. They are better than all you people assume they are.
Nice to talk with you, straight black male, but your reasoning is flawed. There are no "conclusive reports" concerning gays and "unit readiness" or "fighting ability" because there ARE none. Gays, by MILITARY policy, are not allowed to serve. The only evidence I have is from personal experience...not as a gay person, but as prior military service (you goy any of THAT?). I saw firsthand what openly gay people go through and it ain't nice. No, I was not a participant...I actually felt for them....But all that aside, my argument stands...NFL players absolutely will NOT divuldge homosexuality. WHY NOT? Because THEY know what YOU want to pretend isn't there, is there. It will destroy team unity, cohesion, and morale. Sorry...thats the facts. It's a macho, tough guy endeavor. They don't want them there, but as long as they keep it to themselves, they play as long as they want. Despite all the "lets all love each other" stuff, there are millions of people who think homosexuality is wrong, strange, deviant, and downright immoral. But a small percentage of people think others should be forced to accept them. Your argument about the Constitution gets me, I must admit --- I admire and respect that document. On the other hand, the Constituion DOESN'T apply to the military. If you were prior service, you'd know that. This is a VERY difficult issue. No doubt. I don't have the answer except to say this...don't join an organization, be it the Boy Scouts, the Lions club, or the U.S. military with the intent to promote your personal scocial agenda or conduct a crusade to change them. Accept the rules and conditions or don't join. Many people don't admire your "bravery' or "committment"...they just think there's something wrong with you.
3:26 Your full of crap !
I think instead of employing gays the government should help them with treatment and cure them.
What she does on her own time is really her business,and if her military career has been stellar,then who are we to say she deserves to have that career go down the toilet? The amount of homophobia-mania afoot is disturbing.
6:35....I won't use any big words on ya...I'll just point out the obvious...YOU have NEVER been in the military and have NO idea of what that environment is like or who populates that group. Assumptions?? LOL...You make assumptions based on NO knowledge or experience whatsoever, except maybe that of someone who saw a gay person do a good job in the office and wonders what the big deal is.... This goes far beyond "working with someone you don't like"...it AIN'T "working with someone"...thats what YOU do...its killing people and counting on the guy next to you to cover you and give his life for you...THAT'S what THEY do....I bet you'd break down and cry if someone POINTED a gun at you, much less fired off 60-100 rounds in your direction. And God forbid if you had to run out into the open and drag your friend back to cover by his left arm, because the right one was blown off at the shoulder....while under heavy fire. YOU do not have a clue. It ain't no office party we're talkin' 'bout here (I'm trying to keep it simple for you, 6:35, am I going too fast?). This is not about gender or race, natural facets of the human condition. Its about joining an organization that specifically rejects you, doesn't want you, and has made it clear you are not desired. Its true that soldiers will do what they must and obey the law they are given.....most of them anyway...some want to pick and choose which reg's they obey and which one's they will DISOBEY. Are THOSE the professionals you refer to? The one's who are disciplined and doing their job??? LOL! It's also true that from top to bottom, from officers to the lowest private, gay people are NOT welcome in the military. THEY know the effect on morale, unit cohesion, team effort, and military readiness. YOU live in a dream world where everything should be fair and everyone should be nice to each other. You need a moment to catch up?
Somebody pat that guy on the back with prior military service. I'm tired of hearing about it.
7:18 for all your talk, you haven't stated a single fact. Only subjective opinion and pseudotheory.
"No reports"? No fewer than 25 countries, including many we feel are strong enough to ally with allow gays to serve openly. I guess you won't even attempt to look up info. on these militaries prior to forming your "fact-based" opinion.
Can't say I served, but I've had the pleasure of extensive contact with a father, uncles, brother, and old time marine corp vets (grew up in a military town)who combined had tons more of combat experience than you could have had. Guess what? Most don't see to have a problem with it (current or retired).
And the constitution does not apply to the military? What document have you been reading? For starters, I guess you miss where military personnel as well as all fed. employees are sworn to uphold the constitution.
And it boils down to idiots like you who would sacrifice valuable human resources (translators, intelligence specialists, just to name a few) all because of a misplaced fear of gays.
Definetly one issue where you conservatives show off full blown hypocrisy.
And I'm glad to see we got such a great rebuttal from 1:59's brother 7:46. You dug deep on that one.
"Its about joining an organization that specifically rejects you, doesn't want you, and has made it clear you are not desired."
THE SAME WAS SAID ABOUT BLACK SOLDIERS PRIOR TO INTEGRATION. Guess what, minorities proved to fight just as good as any other soldier. Do you think twice before trusting a black soldier to fight beside you?
And while you might try to call me out for lack of service, you can't argue against people such as this Air Force nurse, gay officers who earned high ranks that have now come out of the closet, or many of the gay personnel that have served bravely in the past. Hell, my father's own seargent turned out to be gay. Guess what, they pulled each other out of some tight spots in Vietnam. The same is happening on the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan today.
Face it, you are just another "high and mighty" conservative who believes in "freedom for all.....if you act just like me".
Yo, people....I'm NOT saying gay people can't serve or fight... I KNOW they can and actively do...all I'm saying is that the military itself doesn't want them in their ranks (openly). I think "Don't ask, don't tell" is a good compromise. And, quite apparently, I am far from alone. Because the minority is loud and vocal, doesn't mean they get their way. Not telling people that you are gay in order to serve the country is a restiction and perhaps an uncomfortable one. Perhaps even a legally untenable restriction. Smarter people than I will decide. BUT, it is STILL a restriction and has been for a while. Thats all. Violate that restriction and pay the price. Which is what this officer did. She would not be the first person to ever lose their career over poor judgment (wasn't it also with a married woman? THAT's poor judgment, too)...But I will take the contrary opinions here to heart. We'll see how it turns out. Have a nice day...
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