We have been hearing lots of different things lately. Some people think the proposed development should proceed. Some think the County should buy the land for a new Civic Center. Some even think the property shouldn't be touched now that it is demolished.I think it should be developed according to the P.R.D. currently in place. If the City hadn't run the developers around so much for the last 4-5 years, we would have a great project going up right now, which would not only be putting a lot of people to work, but bringing in residents and tax dollars as well.
Sometimes I think the City is strictly against development, period.
Now it's your turn. If it were up to you, what would you do with the property?
Old Mall Photo Archive
68 comments:
Ask any Architect in town, Salisbury is TOTALLY against any and all development. They are the worst on the eastern shore!
I would say anything that does not impact traffic any worse-it eould be nice to see something there besides asphalt.
I miss the old mall alot-it was "the place to be" years ago.
In this economy, nothing with tax-payer money. Private investment, knock yourselves out.
How bout a fishing pond and park?
I think that we could squeeze 9 holes on that peice of land-maybe expand the elks to a full 18! Ok, ok, wishful golfer thinking. I think that a PRD would be great there-it would bring business back to the twilley center and raise property value in the neighboring areas.
I wouldn't say that Salisbury is "totally against any and all development"; you just have to be smart and make sure that it belongs and flows with the neighboring areas. At least in this case it would be infill development instead of sprawl and would be beneficial to the Salisbury small business economy(as opposed to sprawling developments such as those along Pemberton). Infrastructure would not need to be extended miles down a road, thus giving the existing tax payers a break on paying for future upgrades/reduced impact fees as a result of this community. Above all, we rid the City of another grayfield blight and replace it with new vibrant community.
This is one of the perpetually laughable community embarrassments that make Salisbury look like Maybury's slow little brother. With so many ding-dongs, across the board, making absolutely idiodic decisions- we are still having THIS discussion in 2009 regarding a far-from fruited plain of broken asphalt; Quite frankly, I think the land should just be given to Palestinians until the local mo-mo decision makers/"deciders" can get their crap together.
Put what the people want a open air crack bazaar and be done with it...sad what a great city with a once great potential has become.
Take out the asphalt, put up soccer and baseball fields! Make the whole thing a city park -- and don't name it after anybody!
Rebuild the Old Mall?
I have hated the Centre at Salisbury since the day it opened and all of the stores who used to be in the old mall immediately had to raise their prices to pay for the pricey rents.
The new library could be built there, since they're intent on building a new one and not using the empty downtown buildings. The library could have free parking and let the civic center overflow parking there like they do now.
Civic Center, make Sby a place to travel to for events, make it a hub of the shore and beyond for entertainment. You have to think of the future. To bring in money to this area, we have always waisted the water ways here. Now the river looks like crap, so who would want to build on it. If not do whatever you can do to make the proposed development go forward.
Ahhhh , what an idea I have!
Think about about ladies and gents , a Coliseum ( arena)
built by corporate people. To settle the differences at all
levels. Get rid of the lawyers and judges and try the criminals , thumbs up you live , well now you
know the otherside of the story.
I think the idea of apartments for senior citizens, with a small post office, grocery store,restaurant, doctor's office, pharmacy, meeting area, mini library and excercise area is a good idea. That way senior citizens wouldn't even have to go outside if they didn't want to. Admittance can only be through some kind of I.D. card so that the riff raff stays out and the seniors are protected. Part of the parking lot could still be used for overflow for the Civic Center. Just my thoughts
Put those piles of gravel they have piled up, around three sides of it and put in a public shooting range so that lawful citizens can come in and get proper training in safety and the proper handling of firearms. Kill (no pun intended) two birds with one stone---do something pro-citizen with the property and hopefully bring down the crime against honest law abiding people.
I know,not very politically correct but... my 2 cents worth. too bad liberals.
build a state prison to create jobs!
Ummmmmm. 3:05. Once again I support the Second Amendment. But..You want to look at the written proposal that involves open air shooting within city limits immediately adjacent to a high-school, youth baseball and football fields and County YOUTH and Civic Center {not to mention Lombardis where I occasionally would like to enjoy lasagna without friendly fire casualties}. You may also be indicted for some form of involuntary manslaughter when your agent croaks over from laughter when you try to get an insurance/liability package for your new enterprise. BTW....Is Dave's Sports shop/open range still open? I think they had closed a year or two ago and didn't know if anyone had taken over their shop/public range {free-just load up on ammo/targets}facilities. THAT was the place to get away from the wives/cellphones and mentor proper gun safety/appreciation for your buddies and children....and keep your eye sharp too.
I think they should build an urban tactical combat training center. All of the ultra conservative revolutionaries need a place to spend quality time together plotting to overthrow the elected government. Of course, it should have an indoor and outdoor firing range, command bunker, and high speed internet for blogging.
This is very interesting.
One minute we don't have the funds to even consider such a thing and the next minute everyone is throwing out suggestions as to what can be done with this property.
GET THIS, the City nor the County own this property, period! The Developer is doing everything in their power to put things together to finally develop the property and quite frankly, it's a waste of tiume dreaming what could be or could have been.
Because our City Government wasn't wise enough to see a future and the County Council was too stupid, they lost out on one heck of a buy on that property. It's over though. The only thing left is to sit back and hope they default on the TIF and then perhaps something can be done or sonsidered.
The County nor the City have the funds just to buy the property, let alone a new Civic Center. This is why I did that Post, The House That Fernando Built." The idea was to start talking about it NOW, create the plans over the years and maybe something would work in about 5 years when the economy has turned around.
Anyhow, this is a dead topic in my eyes. A new Civic Center needs to go near the Perdue Stadium.
Resse actually makes a good point!
You spent so much time screwing around about TIF's, neighborhood complaints, and just plain bureaucratic BS; the town of Salisbury only hurting itself. Now we have blighted lot and no new construction. Any developer with fresh ideas will just continue up the road to Delmar and forget about Salisbury.
The democrats of Salisbury has massively screwed the town.
5 Years huh, dont think so.
If it ever snows again, you get bet your butt I'm gonna be out on Salisbury's biggest hill sleading.
One mistake in your analysis Two. Because of the TIF, the city wouldn't be realizing any more tax revenue than it is right now. Of course, they would be providing services which would be subsidized by the taxpayers who don't happen to live in a development subsidized by a TIF.
1:56
It's not that they don't want development; the officials (city building folks) want their cut. I have personally witnessed new ventures come into town and scope out places to set up shop only to have the local Architectural and GC firms tell them "it's not going to happen unless you go through us".
The prospective ventures were flat out told that if they didn't use local firms then they had no chance doing a project.
Personally, the 2 comments of letting the place be built residential to prevent urban sprawl makes the most sense. No silly rules as to who can and can't move in there, though, the market determines that.The more the free market is free, and Salisbury government is out of it, that's incoming taxes to the city.
And yes, the shooting range is still open where Dave's used to be. I think it's called the Tin Man. Ammo, targets, snacks, and custom bike work. Kinda nice.
We HAVE a civic center. Why are we building a new one during a depressed economy???? Just what we need in Salisbury; another bank, pharmacy, or franchise restaurant with food that tastes like expired MREs. In the words of Jeff Spicoli-If we don't get some cool rules-WE will be bogus too. I know {AT LEAST 3 or 4 of you have sat beside me at concerts at Meriweather/Wolf Trap during some really cool gigs}; where those of us that suffer with the ever increasing burdens of life during a recession could at least have a cold beer or two {even if you don't sell liquor}if we have a designated driver. Give us a venue/amphitheater that caters to the young adults here in college, or entertaining a {what I consider at THIS time an unwise} thought of staying as a permanent, contributing tax-paying resident. It's like that confounded duck decoy museum. I am not exaggerating when I state I would rather have certain forms of outpatient surgery than to go to spend part of my day at a museum, that is about as large as Willie Nelson's tour bus, when I can go to Pemberton Park for free fresh air AND ACTUAL LIVE WATERFOWL!! Oh my god, I feel that vein in my neck throbbbing again!!
"the city wouldn't be realizing any more tax revenue than it is right now."
Short term no, long term yes.
Two Sentz:
Please learn what actually happened -- the City did everything those boyz from Baltimore (Natelson & Dzaman) wanted or asked for, including paying the legal fees in the unsuccessful zoning appeal by local residents (the "Salisbury Maulers").
Please see the recent post on this very blog -- "Salisbury Mall-Another Feather In Comegys' Cap" -- Bubba has claimed credit for getting them the TIF subsidy deal that would give them a huge competitive advantage over local developers when the market improves.
PS - Here's the link:
http://sbynews.blogspot.com/2009/02/
salisbury-mall-another-feather-in.html
2:43_
Agreed that it would be a much better place for the library than downtown!
The old library could be the "new" City Hall -- modernized with some of those "bailout-bucks from Barack".
Hogwash, Two Sentz. These developers didn't have a problem due to the city running them around.
These 3rd rate guys never had their act together. Read up about their landscape rape in Virginia and what the people there think of these two clowns.
JMHO, dude!
Don't blow this off as "anti-development." These two pleaded poverty, then bought their own bonds. Whazzup wid dat?
I vote for a water park, man.
3:59, 4:06,
Clearly you don't know Dale Pusey, Jana Potvin, nor have you tried to get anything through that office in the last few years.
Face it, the city is NOT friendly to developers.
Do you actually have any idea what the current hold-ups are? Probably not. Every step SBY Mall Assoc. makes, the City makes a counter step to block them. Unfortunately that post you reference mentions nothing about the cause ot the delays.
Reese Bobby is prepared to second the water park motion....Does the motion carry?? Or is the current administration prepared to continue the county's developing reputation as the place the Amish go to be bored stiff?? Some of you gals/guys on the COUNTY council a little too long need as much of a "cyber-slap" as the city jabronis that take so much {justifiable} heat here. YOU have been getting away with way too much of a free pass while heck has gone to a hand-basket around you.
Reese in speedos, yuck.
1:56-
The reason those "architects" (most of whom are not even good at drafting) say that is because they are trying to put _rap through City Hall that is not well designed and speced.
Two Sentz --
If that's so then why are there so many in business here. Go figure, genius!
Two Sentz:
Can you say "developer reimbursement" -- and if so do you know what that means?
The statement that S-barrie is against development is ludicrous.
Did anyone else notice that one of the attorneys for the builder that just beat the Mall owner in their contract suit is in the same law firm as Mr. Wilber. Seems like they are on both sides of the fence.
Reese Bobby,
My shooting range idea was more a playful exaggeration of the severity of the crime problem and the city's lack of initiation to do any thing with the property.
Of course realistically I know the liabilities and unfeasible nature of a firing range. It was my lacking attempt to put a double edge blunt humor slant to the problems.
I will in the future leave the humor to the pros.
Maybe they could build a new firehouse there. I heard somewhere that they have some new big truck now. The big truck could fit on that site,right?
How about if the developer puts about 15-20 chicken houses there.
Seriously, building affordable and attractive single family homes in that area, should be the only option. lot sizes should be between .25 and .50 acres with building sizes of 750 to 1500 sq. ft. All materials should have to be bought in a 50 mile radius and labor hired locally. These should be only owner occupied or lease with option to buy units with a maximum new value of $125000.
The developer would be required to install green infrastructure including solar and wind generators.
I may be far out on this, but you aked and I answered.
I'm all for having a new and improved Civic Center. You know the type: Large enough to fit the kind of crowds that would attract more talent.
Right now, the big bands (outside of Country)tend to overlook us. I miss the days when Rock acts that weren't "has beens" actually stopped by to play a gig.
Cover it with top soil and plant a giant field of cronic.
4:36. I am not sure this will make it past our rigid censors, but long ago I found the secret to looking "more prominent" in a Speedo was to actually put a potato in the suit. I just wish someone would have clarified that the potato should go in the front, not the rear....and it also always helps to braid your back hair when you go to the cee-ment pond..
Update and add on to the current Civic Center and use it for Civic Center Parking. That is what everybody has done for many years anyway.
Reese I thought it was the polite police.
The Comegy Show is on pac 14 now. Watch how money can fly away!
The city should foreclose on the project. Recover as much of the $15 million as they can. Sue the developers personally for the balance.
Politicians who lobbied for this project should be investigated by the U.S. Attorney's office and charges should be brought as appropriate.
The site should be made into ball fields and parks for the citizens of the county. Public swimming pools should be built. An indoor facility much like Crown should be be built for public use.
Question, folks: If the city has $15 million to throw into the pot for the benefit of a few, why can't it spend a fraction of that for the benefit of the whole community for generations to come?
Another question: Do we really need another mall type project? Check out the vacancies on the existing one.
5:26. Agreed definitely, but with one difference. We need more of a privately owned amphitheater/concert stage {along the lines of one of the Ram's Head facilities around Baltimore}, rather than another redundant "civic center"/faceless venue where people hold proms and job fairs. If the civic center wants to do its thing {BTW..do they still take the hypocritical route of claiming alcohol at public gigs is el diablo grande; yet serve it at a tremendous mark-up, thus ironically providing "Sympathy for El Diablo", at a cash bar when you are bound to hire their exclusive catering services at weddings and private parties and ssuch??} So be it. But many of us here have heard wonderful Jerry Garcia solos, Jimmy Buffet sing-alongs, and Crosby, Stills and Nash harmonies//Allman Brothers jams against the cool Summer breezes and swinging trees of "across the bridge" venues. And {gasp} we had a bit of beer to enhance the jockularity. Do you want people to spend money here or not? This place is like a frigid version of Utah. I tell ya'..I've never seen dead people smoke before!!
That Reese fella wants to drink and smoke "Mother". Hes probably one of those left over Hippies "Oliver". Now get in there and take those pills the doctor prescribed today, we gotta get up early tommorow and go to church.
A new civic center, yes. With sports fields, outdoor tennis courts, walking paths, a dog park, a skateboard park, beach volleyball courts, maybe even a city pool. Link it up with the city park via the old civic center property. Put in more lots more trees there, and turn the whole thing into an overflow lot for the new center.
And why does the county have to own it? Why can't the city have some major investment? This is the kind of project that could get a lot of its funding from open space, green initiative and other donors. At this point in history, with real estate a buyer's market (and the owners/developers over a barrel - several really), soon would be best to look at a property purchase.
6:29. Well that is the same "Hee-Haw" type input that keeps your town such a crime free xanadu {in the top twenty steaming piles of small city violent criminal diarrhea IN THE NATION??...you can stop me any time I am incorrect by the way}, correctamundo?? I am not Less Nesman at 5:31 {although as god is my witness I also thought turkeys could fly during a gig in Cincinnati many years ago}; but at least, UNLIKE YOU, they provided some form of constructive criticism. If you want to be creative; zone off the entire area containing Board of Ed; Wi Hi; Wicomico Football stadium; Running/walking trails adjacent to Ward museum, Youth and Civic Center plot,and surrounding soccer/baseball fields down through Zoo/Picnic Island and adjacent with Elks/existing resdiential properties, etc. Perhaps cut off thru traffic between the old mall and wi-hi sports fields. Improve lighting//roving security for the entire new "complex." At least add a lighted driving range//batting cages. You could probably put in an entire 5k non-paved; but illuminated running course along the perimeter. And for heavens sake....give these nice kids from a different generation a place to socialize and exercise on their skateboards without hassles. Have free exercise in a safe nature environment as needed. BTW...if YOU think you can make me go INSIDE to hear a preacher get their ego/pulpit stroked at church....well you missed the point of peace, community building with simple, free nature/the people next door which I am truly advocating for. Perhaps visit other counties/states and see what outstanding recreation/concert opportunities they provide for minimal yearly membership-reasonable ticket prices.
SMA has not revieved a penny of the TIF yet and won't if the project doesn't go through so I don't what people are so up in arms about there.
As far as the ampitheater, the originial design called for a several thousand seat ampitheater to be there, but (of course) it was shot down by the City. Now it will only be a few hundred seats...if it ever gets built
first thing i would let the entrances open so that our truck drivers may have a place to easily pull into so they can rest. All that space and still no one can use it. Why not allow our driving force to pull over there off a major highway and rest its not being used right now. In the future why not make an outdoor arena so that we can get bigger names and more shows to the delmarva maybe possibly heres a shocker " STIMULATE SALISBURYS ECONOMY" if bigger name bands and more monster truck shows could come here think of all the revenue that would be generated. maybe it would bring more celebs here to visit and that would reflect positively on salisburys immage
This whole discussion about the "old Mall" property seems to say that no one, not one single person has an idea that is based on the future of our city and our County.
My question is? Who are we, and where do we want to go? If we are going to serve the growing needs of the "baby boomers" in health care, and affordable retirement living "near the beach" with all the goods and services designed for an aging population. Why not put in place a Tax plan for retirees that would freeze thier property taxes when they turn 65 until they leave the planet or their homes. (all the builder TIF's and other "incentives" are a wasste of money) tax incentives for Seniors would be great for the economy and the population. Most senior has discretionary money. Just think about it folks. That is one option, another might be that we decide to be a Medical meca, we can focus our resources of bringing the best and the brightest and the newest medical technonolgy here, promote the City and County as the medical meca of the State of Maryland. With it will come the professionals, and the money and the work force.
Or perhaps we would like to be a
College Town, then lets promote the goods and services for the Students, and the facilities for education all over the County,we have a great start, but we could do 100% better at serving the College crowd.
Or perhaps we want to become high tech or an entertainment suburb of Ocean City? Lets firgure out who we want to be and what our 20 year growth focus is to be, then lets get to it.
Does anyone have a "dream" does anyone know that choosing who and what direction we want to take, and then focusing on it is the way to move into the future, to balance our needs and our resources, to conservatively come up with a growth plan that benefits us all. and the development of the "old Mall" property is the first step in that process. I think there must be a
person or persons who have the vision and the passion to make this county and city a true "gem" and the true heart of the Eastern Shore of the State of Maryland.
Reese it was a joke, I got thinking about what my in-laws would say. They are old and godly. It was a skit for gods sake. Relax man. I am Less Nessman.
4:41
You must work for the city, only a city employee would defend this towns inability to review even small projects accurately or quickly. 1:56 and is right!
Two Sentz is being polite. Jana is the most incompetent review on the planet!
Have you and I compared in-law stories; and/or failed, animal related radio promotion satire before? Let's just say, all I know personally is they are never going to allow anyone to ever bend the rules again and do another live feed from that 'DoubleBee Inn' pool bar in Richmond because a few otters I was representing as road manager in the 90s had a little too much Red Bull and ran afoul of some FCC regulations and a Division III women's water polo team from New Mexico...but I digress. I'm sorry I don't get jokes, though.
Can I have the land to build some chicken houses?
we already have enough ball fields parks and shopping
This location need something to create income, not cost us more. There is a plan in place, for a developer, hold the current property owner's feet too the fire. The developer backs out, whatever money the city could recover in default could be used to get the interest of a new developer. Lest we forget we have more students at SU all the time. This is creating more jobs every, thus the need for more housing. Put house where the old mall was we can get more tax dollars. Possibly this can be an example to developers, that Salisbury wants new development.
New mega fire station dude.
Am I developmentally disabled or could it be one too many pulls on the cronic de la tonic? I don't understand what a tif is...?
6:04 and 6:05 have it right!
We don't need another mall, we don't need more houses (the ones all ready built are not selling, and while fill-ins are a good idea, the City should put a moratorium on all new development within the City that does not rebuild on BLIGHTED SITES!
Check out Howard County, MD. It is a planned city - with no problems with vacancies, there is affordable housing for all incomes, plenty of jobs, etc. They planned everything out to begin with in order to make this happen - there is a shopping center within walking distance of every neighborhood cutting down on traffic. They spent money wisely - on infrastructure and development, not on firetrucks, a pathetic zoo or a money-gauging marina - and became one of the most successful places in the US. I would take tips from Rouse and the developers there for ideas on how to "fix" Salisbury...
A nice Lexington Market and some outlet store would be nice to have on that north prong.
A nice place with a diversity of people and variety's of foods and fresh cut meats and deli's. A multi-cultural developement to bring the people of Salisbury closer together.
i can't believe i'm agreeing, but a water park would:
1-pull some of the oc tourism revenue
2-give the kids something to do
3-look nice
4-give the civ cntr overflow parking
and 6-give the college kids local summer jobs...
should be the site for new civic center,and offer the old building up to the schools for thier activitys.
should be the site of new civic center.and offer the old building up to the schools for thier activitys so it won`t coast them arm and leg.I belive it was to be that way in the beginig
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