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Sunday, March 02, 2008

Follow-up on questions to the WCBOE

Forgive me for being less than timely with the follow-up on this matter. It's taken a while for me to get the responses and find the time to put them up for everyone to read.

A brief re-cap:

Based on comments made by readers on this blog, as well as comments Ive heard from people in the community, I developed 3 questions and posed them to Robin Holloway (President of the WCBOE) by posting them here on this blog. I then contact Mrs. Holloway by phone, at her request, to discuss the issues. Mrs. Holloway directed me to Tom Fields, A/Superintendent of Schools for Wicomico County, for the answers to my questions. I have been in contact with Tom Fields who has provided information which has proven to be enlightening, and on some points for me, disappointing. Disappointed not at the BOE or the school system as much as with the State and Federal govts.

At this point I will list the questions and follow with the answers provided and my opinion. You can make our own opinions and comments as you see fit.


Question 1) Is it true that the State of Maryland has determined that a disproportionate number of minorities have been suspended and, therefore have instructed our school administrators to ignore certain conduct violations?

Answer 1) No - not exactly. State Auditors routinely visit all school systems to assure that the manner in which "special ed students" (those who receive an education with the benefit of an Individual Education Plan", or IEP) is in compliance with State and Federal mandates. Failure by the school system to maintain compliance could result in the loss of control of approx. $3,000,000.00 of State and Federal funding by the BOE. NOT the loss of the money - loss of CONTROL of the money. The way I understand it, the BOE receives this money to help offset the costs associated with providing IEP's to those student deemed to be in need. The BOE uses this money as it sees fit in order to assure compliance is met. If the State believes the mandates are not being met, they will dictate specifically how these funds will be spent by the BOE in order to assure compliance.

The State Auditors have determined that a high number of special ed. students have been suspended from school for behavioral problems. They have also determined that the methods used by some teachers and administrators to punish bad behavior by special ed. students were inconsistent with school policy and were responsible, at least in part, for this high number of suspensions. The findings of the auditors prompted the BOE to address this issue with school administrators in order to bring them into compliance with the existing policies.

Special Ed. Students ARE given special treatment relating to punishment for misbehavior. This special treatment is mandated by State law. Mainstream students are not afforded the same treatment.

Below are some facts given by Mr. Fields which are likely to lead people to believe that minorities are given preferential treatment.


a) There are approx. 1700 students in Wicomico County who have been determined by state standards to be special ed. students.

b) Minorities make up approx. 30% of the student body population.

c) Minorities make up more than 50% of the students designated as special ed. students.

d) A significant number of special ed. students do not have outwardly visible signs of a disability. They have been diagnosed with "emotional disorders" and, therefore, are categorized by State standards as "Special Ed. Students". These emotional disorders account for a significant number of behavior problems.

e) State law requires that special ed. students be placed in an environment that is as unrestricted as possible. This means they are placed in the classroom with the mainstream students, often with an additional teacher to provide special assistance.

f) When I asked if outbursts and behavioral problems exhibited by special ed. students disrupted the education of the mainstream students, he stated "that is a CONSTANT challenge".

My opinion 1) The state has opened up a Pandora's Box by lowering the behavioral standard for special ed students with "emotional disorders". They should be bringing those students up to the same standard to which everyone else is held so as to prepare them for life in the real world. This would help alleviate the animosity which is inevitably created when it appears as though someone is receiving preferential treatment. Especially when a great many (by virtue of the figures listed above) are minorities. We mustn't forget that there are many people out there who are looking for any reason to justify their belief that minorities in general receive preferential treatment. Students who cause disturbances, regardless of the reason, should not be permitted to compromise the quality of education available to mainstream students. I am not without compassion for those with learning disabilities (I have a nephew diagnosed with autism) but I do not believe that children without disabilities should pay a price for those who do. A genuine disability is one thing, but I don't believe that children who refuse to behave should be classified as disabled due to an emotional disorder. Everyone is responsible for their own behavior. THAT is what should be impressed upon ALL children. Just because a child is raised in a single parent family and has been classified as having an "emotional disorder" doesn't mean he/she won't go to prison for committing a crime. Child Psychologists are handing out behavioral disorder diagnosis's like candy. We're teaching our children that they're not responsible for their actions.





Question 2) Some time ago the Wicomico County Board of Education initiated a pilot program entitled "School Based Wellness Program". Can you tell us if this program still exists and if so where and what it consists of?

Answer 2) School based wellness is a a grant funded program which still exists at Wicomico Middle School. Students who participate must have the signature of a parent or guardian prior to any treatment. It should be noted that my specific question to Mr. Fields on the phone was whether or not School Based Wellness provided birth control to students without parental notification. Initially he stated that he knew of no such thing and advised me that he'd look into it. Several days later Mr. Fields called me and advised that he was surprised with what he had learned. He stated that he had learned that if the parent/guardian signs giving permission to participate in the School Based Wellness Program that parent essentially signs away his/her right to be informed of that type of information. So in order to take advantage of the program, the parent signs away certain parental rights! Mr. Fields stated that had I not asked the question he may have never know about that.

Opinion 2) School Based Wellness is an under the radar socialized medical care program that strips the parents of the right to know whats going on with the health of their children. Imagine if it were nationwide. Folks we'd better be careful of what we ask for. How would you feel if you learned that your had been on birth control for months and was sexually active and that the school had known the whole time, yet you were never consulted before they provided your child with birth control? I would be fit to be tied. I believe that any type of program that requires people to sign over certain parental rights is yet another huge step toward Socialism and may have never been implemented had there been an elected school board. No offense to the current members but it they were held accountable by the citizens, then the citizens would have a voice as it relates to the direction in which their schools are heading.



Question 3) The proposed new Bennett High School is to be built in Fruitland I believe. By the time it is completed where (in a percentage) will the student population be in relation to it's design capacity and how long is it expected to take until the school is up to the maximum capacity.

Answer 3) Bennett MIDDLE School is probably going to be built in Fruitland. Bennett HIGH School is going to be built behind where it currently stands. Now here's the interesting part . Both schools will be at 100% capacity when they open their doors! What? That's right! Mr. fields stated that the State of Maryland will not provide funds to build anything designed to hold more students than currently exist.....and the County simply doesn't have the funds to build with the capacity to handle future numbers of students. As a matter of fact, in order to get funding from the State for these projects, the WCBOE had to prove that the surrounding schools couldn't handle any more students either. It was mentioned, however, that the new schools are being designed to put all mechanical workings such as plumbing, heating, and electricity in specific areas so that any future additions can easily tie into existing services.

Opinion 3) I don't think there are any easy answers to this. I commend the initiative to design with the future in mind, and what good would it do to actually build classrooms that would not be used until the population increases?


I believe the WCBOE could do a better job at communicating with the public. Mrs. Holloway and Mr. Fields seemed sincere and were helpful. At no time did I feel as though I was being ridiculed for asking questions and I feel as though I was given honest answers. If not, then I was fooled and I will readily admit that should evidence to that effect arise. Mr. Fields stated that the BOE website is currently being changed to offer a Q/A section. It will start by posting Frequently Asked Questions and supplying answers to those questions as a way to "break the ice". Then people will be able to post their questions and get the answers they need. I could go on but I think it's more important for others to be able to comment and make important points of their own.

31 comments:

Anonymous said...

just like I said .Its all about giving the frigging minorties rewards for their constant misbehavoirand making the mainstream students obey the law.Thats pure BS and the adminstation knows it,but are so wrapped up in dollar bills they will do anything the government dictates.The majority of those future criminals are unteachable.Thats the parent and the misfits mentality. They stand up in the class rooms disrepecting the teachers and they know nothing will be done to them.Just like the pic. in the DT today.One loud mouth minority girl and her own mother said so.The Daily Times puts her picture in the paper.That was a responsible reporting BS.

Anonymous said...

You have gotten valuable information for the public. Special ed. students do take an incredible amount of time and attention away from the other students. Even if the special ed. child has an assistant assigned just to him, the other kids are disturbed by his yelling, noise-making, refusal to work, getting out of his seat, etc. In addition to resource teachers and regular assistants hired for special ed., taxpayers in this county pay for about 30 assistants, each one assigned to just one special ed. student. This costs about $1 million a year. Imagine your child having his own full-time adult in every class, assigned just to pay attention to him. When this extreme still doesn't keep the child in line, what else is the county supposed to do? Maybe somebody from the state should come in and show us how to use their $3 million to get these kids to work or to be still so the others can work. Many children who would have been placed at Holly Center are in our public schools, and as their numbers increase the county school system will go bankrupt at this rate. And for what? The cost is so high, and sadly the amount learned is so low.

Anonymous said...

To reduce school suspensions, etc. some at risk students are kept in one classroom with no transition to other rooms or cafeteria. In this situation, the teacher is given little oversight and there is virtually no accountability. Some of these students even are used by the teacher outside of school to do personal errands, etc.--not related at all to school-based work. Basically, these kids are segregated in one classroom so as not to increase the number of suspensions at the school.

Anonymous said...

Special Education is going to hurt public education. Schools will have to lower their expectations of behavior because the public will cruisfy the schools if all children are not treated fairly. So what will be done to treat students fairly. Lower the behavior expectations.

Anonymous said...

Kudos to Mr. Field for his honest answers. Mr. Field was asked and answered the questions with clarity and truth.

I am not saying that I agree with IDEA (Individuals with Disability Ed. Act) but it is the law and school systems in each state have to follow it.

The blame is not on our county but with the feds for this law.

I believe the schools are doing a great job with dealing with all students under the constaints of the law.

Anonymous said...

It's TOM FIELD, not Fields.

Anonymous said...

@ anon 921


Your first sentence was great, then fell off track.

special ed ("emotionally disturbed") students who can't cut it in a regular ed classroom are pulled out into a self contained setting. It keeps them out of trouble, and lets them actually focus on education. There is a reduction in transition and unstructured time.. keeping them out of trouble.

After that, you fell WAY off track. I'm not sure that you know what you are talking about, nor do you realize the purpose of such placements.


To those critics, please visit your local school. See how hard it is trying to meet all the students "needs". Then ask yourself one question --- WHY is the school doing all these things. Schools provide education -- NOT BASIC SOCIAL SKILLS --- PARENTS DO THAT.

Because parents have failed so miserably, schools are now trying very hard to pick up the slack... feeding your child BREAKFAST, LUNCH, and teaching them MANNERS, and providing a litany of 'specialists' to diagnose all their 'disorders'. None of which they would not have if parents simply stood up to their kids and said "NO!"


I think education is now a very broken institution, just like the family already is. I think people now recognize that, and that massive change is close in the offing. I smell revolution.

Anonymous said...

12:09
I agree with you. Society cannot seem to hold parents responsible for the uncivilized behavior of their children. So the schools get blamed for not being able to do something with them. How much more time and money can we devote to at risk kids? Is what we're doing at such high cost making one bit of difference? We've made sure kids who come to school to learn only get an education when those with no social skills allow the teachers to teach. Everyone is at the mercy of the least capable. A child who cannot or will not be productive in a mainstreamed setting should not be there.

Anonymous said...

On the subject of the wellness project and birth control: some kids have sex as casually as the rest of us have a cup of coffee. For some age groups, Wicomico's teen pregnancy rate is higher than Baltimore City's, and we're second in the state overall. So those with the least ability to support themselves and their children are reproducing faster than any other group. Many of the males don't want to use birth control, because producing lots of kids (even though they don't support any of them) is a sign of manhood. They brag about how many babies they've made. So, if a middle school program can get kids to use birth control instead of producing lots of kids for the rest of us to take care of, I'm for it. Of course it would be ideal to involve parents, but that often causes kids to reject the birth control. It is a sign of their immaturity that they would rather tell their parents they're pregnant than talk to them about birth control. Sad as it sounds, we're not going to stop them for having sex. The best we can hope for is to stop the mass production of children the rest of us will have to raise.

Anonymous said...

11:42
Clearly the county is trying to deal with this difficult situation, but "doing a great job" may be a little over the top. Since the way we spend the millions in state aid is not working too well, how bad would it be to let the state tell us how to do it better? Until Grand dad's post, I think most of us had the impression the county would lose the money if minority, special ed. suspensions continued. Actually, we would keep the money, but they would tell us how to use it more effectively. Are we so sure there is nothing they can help us do? Is our system that great that they couldn't point out things that need to be changed? Our response was along the lines of not suspending so many in that category, which is hardly an inspired solution.

Anonymous said...

One facet of special education that many folks do not know about is the label '504.' A '504' student must meet some very simple criteria to earn this title - scared of the color orange? Afraid of spiders? Well, you can be labeled '504! The beauty of this is that the student is now protected by the same disciplinary restrictions (can't expel me!)

Sadly, the list of '504' students in many districts looks like a who's who list of the rich and famous, who don't want their spoiled children to get kicked out of school for anything. Smart parents are having their children labeled '504' early on, before they get out of control - this way, they can't get in trouble if they become defiant later on.

Anonymous said...

Anon12:09 Please know that what I say is true: these children ARE doing tasks for the teacher which are completely unrelated to school--they are to assist the teacher only. Besides being unethical, exposes BOE to liability.

Strange how years ago "mainstreaming" was the goal of BOE.

Anonymous said...

This IDEA is ruining schools but so is No Child Left Behind. My youngest child now has 90 minutes a day for math in elementary school in this county, which is twice as much math time as his older siblings had. He is a really good math student so I thought he would be learning so much more math. Not happening. They spend hours writing these long responses to math problems that are embarrassingly simple to prepare for a basic state test that 100% of kids are supposed to be able to pass. So how hard can that test be if everybody is supposed to be proficient on it in a couple of years? Even if all of the answers are written out great, you still practice them as much as the kids who don't get how to write them. My child was scored advanced which means nothing since everything on the test was at his grade level according to his teacher. It's a rule of the test that nothing on it can be at a higher grade level. So my son is advanced at doing nothing that's advanced. Now they spend 90 minutes doing basic grade level math which could have been done in half the time. This speed is not for average or above average children but they're all doing it. No child is left behind because all of them wait for the slowest to catch up.

Anonymous said...

@ 8:29,

I have no doubt that the self contained folks are doing some tasks for that teacher. Their parents have failed to teach them basic social skills, so the opportunity to create situations where "Please" and "Thank you for helping me" can be properly modeled are necessary. Their goal is to teach both humanity and education to these students.

Once again, these students are busy being taught skills their parents should have taught them. This is an arena the school system does not belong in. Why am I as a taxpayer paying for a very small setting for this child. The parents should be paying for it (but I'm sure that is the root cause of the problem).

Lastly, what would you recommend? Should they be returned to the classroom with 30 students, so they can sing out loud, curse, and threaten every other student in the room? How many of these "pull out" students are at the appropriate age for their grade level?

What kind of school do you want your children going to?

Anonymous said...

8:29
Mainstreaming sounds like such a democratic idea until you see what happens when children can't handle it. Everybody suffers.

Bob said...

Anon 8:18

Interesting point of information. "504". I did a little research and found this:

What are the School District's Responsibilities?

Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 is a federal civil rights law that prohibits discrimination against individuals with disabilities:
“no other qualified handicapped individual in the United States…shall solely by reason of his handicap, be excluded from participation in, be denied benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any program or activity receiving federal financial assistance.

To read the text in it's entirety, one can go to this site -
http://www.dcn-cde.ca.gov/504/Units/Unit%20IV.htm

I know it's a ca. website but it captures the intent of federal legislation that affects all PUBLIC schools as I read it.

It seems as though the intention of the legislation was good but it is too open to interpretation as it relates to mental handicaps. The way child psychologists do things today, every fear, misbehavior, or thought deemed to be outside of the norm is now attributed to some sort of "disorder" and therefore protected under ADA.

Anonymous said...

This county needs to take the money from tons of these behavioral positions and establish an elementary alternative school. It isn't effective to have these little stop gap programs in each elementary school. Don't wait until high school to put kids in an alternative school. Maybe an alternative school for elementary kids where the focus is reading and math would save some of them.

Anonymous said...

8:18

From what I have been told, a 504 plan is not an IEP, therefore not under the behavior rules. Parents have rights like they do with IDEA but the plan does not come under IDEA.

All a 504 plan is is a way for doctors and parents to get around ADHD. If your kid cannot focus but is "smart", lets give them privilages so they can take tests by themselves, sit by themselves, etc. At least that is what usually happens to small kids.

In HS, a 504 plan is a great way to get around special permission. If you have asthma, get a plan so that you have to go to a school with air conditioning. If you want to play football or basketball for Wi Hi, say that you have "emotional stress" because of bullies at the other HS. A 504 plan will cover that.

In other words, get a 504 plan and you have school choice!

Anonymous said...

9:37

Finally a comment worth reading. I agree with you totally. Why wait till middle school and high school to deal with the kids. It makes all the sense in the world to do it at a young age.

Do we as parents wait till our kids are 15 to teach them rules at home?

Anonymous said...

9:37 has the solution, and the county used to have an elementary alternative school but it was thought to be unnecessary. That was wrong, it is very necessary. Maybe if little ones went there and learned reading, math and how to behave it would save more of them. If there are any middle or high school teachers who are good with kids but don't play they should be working with these kids along with some good elementary teachers who don't play.

Anonymous said...

Anon 9:51, I agree that we parents now need to be teaching our children common courtesy and civilities aroundothers, but its certainly not being done for all the children, unfortunately. My grandson was "sucker punched" in High School class by one of these "special ed young men" that had a little women teacher with him who could do next to nothing about this 200 pound jackass, when he attacked my grandson. So, assigning teachers to the special ed situation has to consider the manliness of that protective teacher and not give the job to a young, new lady teacher. I know, I know, there aren't that many male teachers coming through the system. Well, then perhaps a special school just for these disruptive students is the best solution. Actually, the best solution is of course to insure the parents do their job in the first place. Oh the tangled webs we tend to weave!

A. Goetz

Anonymous said...

Public Education never has and never will work.

Only things that are earned are things that are appreciated, and simply giving irresponsible parents the solution to all of their child's needs is preposterous.

We are creating a society of disposable kids. They are institutionalized as early as possible and we systematically handed over all responsibility for them to the state.

The kids with the 'disabilities' learned at a young age how to manipulate their surroundings so that they had no accountability for their behavior. Then the poor kids who do come from a well structured home that actually values education are being slapped in the face with the reality that in this society excellence counts for nothing.
When both of these groups learn these lessons; hopelessness begins to grow in their being and they are exactly where all state desensitized citizens are...oppressed, and lacking inspiration.
We have done it to ourselves.
In the 50's when we were a far more civilized people we really thought that it would work. But the reality of the 60's, 70's and 80's with sex drugs and rock and roll came along and those of us who made it through with an intact family got here by the skin of their teeth.
Guilt and shame are a thing of the past and we have raised a generation with very little to no conscience.
The aging of the 'Great Society' has settled in. The baby boomer's children are now grandparents themselves and we have watched the confusion that the assault on our human dignity has cost us.
All the therapy in the world can't help a kid or his parents that have an entitlement mindset.
We as a society must change. Those who still know what it's like to be responsible for ourselves and our actions must step up.
We have taught our kids that the state is responsible for everything and everyone, and we wonder why we have the problems that we do.

If you would like to read more on the issue got to http://www.schoolandstate.org/home.htm

They are an organization committed to independent learning and teaching.

We need to say NO to public schools and crap that we are subjecting our children to on a daily basis.
Don't be afraid of this...you know in your heart that you can do a better job at educating your child than the ridiculous motions that he or she is subjected to every day. Completing dozens of multiple choice papers so that they can maintain there funding, so that they can fill out more papers. This is not education. This is not real learning. This is not what we should be subjecting our children to!

Anonymous said...

1:11
You have some good ideas here. Also in Wicomico County, when schools try to group by ability, parents of children who need to be in below average groups come in and get the kids put in above level or the highest groups to avoid the kids with the awful behavior. This slows down the top groups which now have a few excellent students and many nice kids who are not good students, but administrators are always overruled by the BOE if they say no to a parent who wants a child in a higher group than he should be in. Some programs for good students have just lowered their standards to shut up the parents. Face it, the days of high standards are dead.

Anonymous said...

Mr. Albero,
I don't often agree with what you post, but in this matter, I do not disagree with your post or your opinions.
Re: Question 1
Students who cause disturbances, regardless of the reason, should not be permitted to compromise the quality of education available to mainstream students. I am not without compassion for those with learning disabilities but I do not believe that children without disabilities should pay a price for those who do. A genuine disability is one thing, but I don't believe that children who refuse to behave should be classified as disabled due to an emotional disorder. Everyone is responsible for their own behavior. THAT is what should be impressed upon ALL children. Just because a child is raised in a single parent family and has been classified as having an "emotional disorder" doesn't mean he/she won't go to prison for committing a crime. Child Psychologists are handing out behavioral disorder diagnosis' like candy. We're teaching our children that they're not responsible for their actions.

Re: Question 2
He (Mr. Fields) stated that he had learned that if the parent/guardian signs giving permission to participate in the School Based Wellness Program that parent essentially signs away his/her right to be informed of that type of information. So in order to take advantage of the program, the parent signs away certain parental rights! Mr. Fields stated that had I not asked the question he may have never know about that.
Joe, Mr. Fields still did not answer the question of birth control being given to students without parental knowledge. He neatly sidestepped that question and I would guess by his evasion of a direct answer to your question that the answer is YES.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 6:54
"The cost is so high, and sadly the amount learned is so low." and unfortunately, the "regular" non-disruptive student is losing out on the learning more than should be tolerated.

Anonymous said...

Mrs. Handy had some good comments in the paper a while ago about teaching kids some basic behaviors before they come to school. I would settle for one behavior, which is to do as you are told when an adult gives you a direction. That's it, plain and simple. Do as you are told when you are told. We teachers can't grab you, shake you, hit you, curse you, threaten to kill you, slap you or scream at you. Parents should teach kids just to obey the adult without all of that. Also, if the child has to be told or begged to do something multiple times, there should be consequences not just repeated and louder begging.

Anonymous said...

Some schools have tried parenting workshops to teach parents skills they need to be effective. The sessions are free, transportation is free, food is provided for free, and parents are reminded numerous times of the dates, but usually the number of teachers and guidance counselors presenting outnumber the parents three to one. Of course the school staff is not paid for the time spent developing the material or the nights involved presenting it to the three parents who attended. Many parents have the attitude that their job is to produce as many kids as possible, and that's where their responsibility ends.

Anonymous said...

To A. Goetz
First, your grandson is lucky the other student did not pick up a chair or desk to hurl at him. Second, your grandson's parents need to file charges. IDEA may keep special ed. students in classes where they cannot be controlled, but it does not make them or their parents immune from prosecution. Actually, the school system is liable as well if there was reason to believe or any prior acts to show the other child was violent. It may take some court cases to turn this around. Maybe the state will have to come to the county and show us how to spend their millions of dollars in ways that benefit special ed. students without making victims of kids like your grandchild. The assumption is that the parents of the children who are attacked will be unhappy but also inactive.

Anonymous said...

The Wicomico BOE has a dropout coordinator. That person should be working at an elementary alternative school. You stop dropouts before the age of 10 not after the age of 15.

Anonymous said...

I am all for the birth control. If taxpayers think kids will stop having sex if there is no birth control available, look at Wicomico County's teen pregnancy rate and think again. I'm tired of supporting huge families who keep having kids for me to give money to. Either kids have unprotected sex and their offspring become our responsibility or kids have protected sex and there are no offspring. Those are the choices. Kids who are abstaining don't ask for the birth control so they're not in this discussion. I didn't do the layin so why am I doin the payin? The welfare system has to change. After the second child you can't support money should not increase. Do what the rest of us do when we have more kids but don't get a raise AT OUR JOBS. We spend less and budget more. We don't automatically get more money because we keep reproducing so why should anybody I'm supporting be paid to make more kids?

Bob said...

Anonymous 1:28

My name is Bob Harris and my screen name is Granddad. I am responsible for this post. Please don't hold Joe accountable for things with which you disagree relating to it. I am sorry if you disagree with the contents but this is what was told to me by Mr. Field. I didn't add to it or take away from it. I had specific questions which I posed to him and he answered them. Some of his answers created more questions. I asked them and he answered. I didn't include the total content of our conversation because it lasted for about half an hour. His answers listed here are not direct quotes but I added no opinion to those answers. Frankly everyone has better things to do than to read a small novel on a Sunday morning. I published this post to be informative and to solicit opinion of our public school system.

I personally believe our teachers are doing the best they can to work within a system manipulated by the State and Federal Govts. and destined for failure. The system is teaching our kids WHAT to think rather than HOW to think. Most teachers I know are extremely frustrated as well. Little by little our children are being taken from us because we have lost control of our schools and the govt. that runs them.

I believe you missed the point of answer #2. Mr. Field stated that when the parent/guardian signs giving permission to participate in the School Based Wellness Program that parent essentially signs away his/her right to be informed of that type of information. The answer to the question as it relates to birth control is clearly "yes". I didn't get the feeling that Mr. Field was side stepping the issue.