Dr. Randy George of Marion Station presented the following remarks Feb. 11 to the County Ethics Commission as it begins to review financial disclosure forms submitted by the County Commissioners.
* * *
“I’m have been very troubled by what’s going on with regards to this wind ordinance. The underlying reason, I think, why you’re here today is that wind ordinance.
“The drafting of an ordinance was commissioned by the County Commissioners to the Planning and Zoning Commission, and I think this whole discussion centers around the prestige of office, around the use of that. And that’s the underlying theme that I hear through it all.
“You are at some disadvantage, because you were not, like many of us, sitting through these long Planning and Zoning Commission meetings. Maybe that’s an advantage. But we do have, and the county does have audio/visual records of every bit of it, it’s out there.
“When Pioneer Green, we all know who that is, came into the county, it had very clear requirements. It was never vague about those requirements for what it had to have in order to be here. It needed to plant a series of turbines in an agricultural-residential area, because we are closely tied geographically to each other that didn’t leave a lot of area. People live quite close to each other even though it’s an agricultural region.
“Pioneer Green wanted to place these turbines 700 feet away from people. They finally conceded that it would be a 1,000 feet, otherwise they would have to walk. The height had to be a certain height, and if it were to be restricted, they would have to walk. If the sound was allowed to be too loud, they would have to walk, they required it to be in the range of airports and train sound levels permitted by the state of Maryland, otherwise they would not stay.
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«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 600 of 1183 Newer› Newest»This post will surly generate over a thousand comments because PG is obsessed with bombarding us with useless studies over and over again. PG doesn't seem to understand human nature. Why would anyone WANT to live near a wind mill if they had a choice? Even if they were safe, quite, and didn't kill birds (which they are not) why would I want to live near them? Oh, I know, because my neighbor has a right to do what he wants with his property. That argument is full of BS because my neighbors rights stop where my rights begin.
Funny that the commissioner that wants the windmills the most doesn't have any windmills proposed for his district. If PG tried to put these monsters in Randy Lairds district he would get so many complaints that he would change him mind and oppose them in a heart beat.
A study called "Can Expectations Produce Symptoms From Infrasound Associated With Wind Turbines" was published in Health Psychology - a journal of the American Psychological Association.The researchers from the University of Auckland in New Zealand wanted to find out if simply exposing people to warnings that turbines might make you ill was enough to cause them to report typical symptoms such as headaches and nausea. The short answer is it did. This is what lead author Fiona Crichton says."The findings indicate that negative health information readily available to people living in the vicinity of wind farms has the potential to create symptom expectations, providing a possible pathway for symptoms attributed to operating wind turbines. This may have wide-reaching implications. If symptom expectations are the root cause of symptom reporting, answering calls to increase minimum wind-farm set back distances is likely to do little to assuage health complaints." This is a much more plausible explanation to health problems associated to wind energy than what we have heard from the Brown County Health Board!
Obama and the liberals love windmills and that is all that I need to know in order to oppose them. Everything Obama has supported has been a total disaster and these government sanctioned, government supported, government approved windmills will be the same. Don't forget Solyndra and all the solar energy corruption.
4:39 If this thread reaches a thousand comments it will be because SFS continues to come on here and make blatantly wrong easily discredited lies such as as the ones you allude to. If your neighbor legally develops his property and you don't like it you have the option of dealing with it or moving. Plenty of people are content to live near them. This area is an agricultural area not an HOA. Get it out of your head that you should have control of your neighbors property. You berate the proponents for taking the time to educate themselves on the topic and making it a point to be informed and your solution is "everyone stop researching the topic and listen to me and do what I want"? Following that attitude you have the audacity to suggest that you are for protecting property rights? You however are 100% correct when you say your neighbors rights end where yours begin. No one is going to force you to put a turbine on your property. But by that same token you do not have control to dictate what can go on your neighbors property.
The city of Ocean City just denied a property owner permission to build a windmill. Good for them, they are obviously smarter than our commissioners and the elected officials of Lewes, DE.
@4:39 Why would anyone want to live near a poultry farm. So should all poultry farms be banned unless all neighbors sign off on it. You seem to have a very high opinion of yourself! You seem to think your neighbors should only have the right to do with THEIR land what you grant them permission for. Tell me should your neighbors be allowed to stop you from using your land without proving harm?
If windmills are so beautiful why did the Kennedy's object to building them off the coast in front of their home?
An as yet unpublished study (and therefore not peer-reviewed) just released by Simon Chapman, the Professor of Public Health at the University of Sydney, suggests only a tiny proportion of people living near turbines do actually complain and, when they do, the complaints coincide with campaigning from anti-wind groups.
Chapman looked at health complaints made by residents living within 5 kilometres of all 49 wind farms operating in Australia between 1993 and 2012. After reviewing media reports, public inquiries and complaints to wind companies themselves, Chapman found evidence of only 120 individuals having actually complained - representing about 1 in 272 people living near wind farms.
But significantly, Chapman found that 81 of those 120 residents were living beside just five wind farms “which have been heavily targeted by anti wind farm groups”. What's more, some 82 per cent of all the complaints had occured since 2009 when Chapman says anti-wind farm groups began to push the health scare as part of their opposition to turbines.
Some 31 of the 49 wind farms studied had never been subjected to a complaint either about noise or health.
“The 31 farms with no histories of complaints, and which today have some 21,530 residents within 5km of their turbines have operated for a cumulative total of 256 years,” says Chapman's report. In Chapman's research, he says that anxiety among residents increases as media reports spread the stories of health concerns and as researchers start investigating.
Windmills would be like Obamacare. After it's pushed down your throat you are stuck with it and there is nothing you can do about it. Stand up against it now before it is to late.
Windmills for the Westover area would be like the sewer project that they forced on people in that area. People just stood by and let it happen and then when they got there bills it was to late to do anything about it. The time to take a stand is before something happens, not after the fact because then it will be to late.
5:05 Actually the turbines would be built and run by a private business on private property with consent of hosting landowners. Pretty big difference.
5:02 Yes to take a stance against Obama you are going to try to kill property rights and a private business in Somerset County. Thatll show em!
4:57 Sounds like you would be happier in a HOA in Ocean City then so you can have some degree of control on your neighbors property.
This month, Apple announced plans to spend nearly $2 billion on European data centers set to run entirely on renewable energy, and invested $848 million to secure power from 130MW of First Solar’s California Flats Solar Project under a 25-year power purchase agreement. Google also agreed to replace 370 wind turbines installed in the 1980s with 24 new, more efficient and bird-friendly turbines at the Altamont Pass in the San Francisco Bay Area
Health care giant Kaiser Permanente will announce Wednesday that it has signed deals to buy electricity from a new wind farm to be built at the Altamont Pass, a vast solar plant in Southern California, and more than 100 smaller rooftop solar arrays to be installed at its hospitals, parking garages and medical offices, all of which will reduce its carbon emissions by 30 percent.
"Our primary motivation is that climate change is also a health issue," said Rame Hemstreet, Kaiser's chief energy officer. "The health impacts are already being experienced by our communities, our members."
The 48-turbine wind farm, just east of Livermore, is the same project Google revealed it was buying energy from last week.
Kaiser and Google have inked 20-year power purchase agreements with Florida-based NextEra Energy, which will use the money to remove more than 700 old wind turbines from its Altamont property this year and replace them with more efficient machines. The companies will each get about 43 megawatts of power from the new wind farm, known as Golden Hills.
All your attempts at intimidation have failed and your posts are becoming more and more illogical. For instance Obama and the liberals are for wind energy so you must be against but the Kennedys were against so they must be right. Either you feel you just have to be against black liberals and can agree with white liberals or your having a breakdown. Scary to think this is leading the Republican Party in Somerset.
8:23 - What the heck are you talking about, you must be drinking tonight.
Not that much difference 5:20 because the folks in Westover have to live with the negative consequences of both the sewer and the windmills. Not much difference really, one is as bad as the other. We have a prison and a landfill, and a high price sewer so we don't need to look at a giant fan in the sky all day every day of our lives.
Can you lay a couple more studies on us, I'm really impressed!
4:55 -- you are right when you say that I don't have the right to dictate what my neighbors can do with their property but my elected officials do have that right. I have the right to persuade those officials in any way that I choose. That is exactly what PG is doing, trying to persuade the county officials that winds mill are good, I on the other hand will be trying to persuade them that windmills are not wanted or needed and would have a negative effect on the county.
I believe that thy Somerset county EDC (Danny Thompson) baited great Bay with a whole lot of promises and they fell for it hook, line, and sinker. Now the EDC can't produce anything and Great Bay has invested so much that they can't give up. It will be very interesting to see where all this ends up. An observer and not an SFS member yet.
Thousand comments easy because this is about all PG has to do these days.
10:01 and 10:07 The hypocrisy. The opposition and SFS claims to be for property rights, but you are admitting that you are running to elected officials trying to use the commissioners office as a HOA to violate others property rights. Then you indicate they should do this for you absent any evidence of the outrageous and easily refutable claims you make. PG does not need to prove turbines are "good" although a substantial literature base does indicate they would would great for our county vs the word of the "say no to everything crowd." The burden is actually on SFS to claim the turbines would be "bad" for the county and that requires a little more than a few people saying "we don't like them." If you were going to put an addition on your house would me going to zoning and saying "I don't like it" be a valid reason in your mind for zoning to kill it? You talk about negative consequences but you cannot name any and justify them. Despite what you may think there is a big difference between a company coming in to do business and providing revenue, tax money and a few jobs and the county doing something and then charging everyone for it. There is actually no similarity. The ego of anyone who says that the commissioners should kill a private business with a few million invested and interfere with private farmer and large landowners property rights is astounding and yet I bet you will be one of the first to complain if due to abysmal business revenues our county taxes go up. The "say no to everything" crowd almost seems determined to keep Somerset as one of the poorest counties in the US. Hopefully despite them the county can be more.
@10:11 Glad to hear Somerset's EDC is doing something! Somerset's now one of the poorest counties in the country and by far the poorest in the state so it's about time! Of course they are handicapped by a small but vocal group in the county that doesn't want any better. Somerset still needs more electricity,investment,jobs and industry. That and relatively cheap land I think will guarantee electrical generation of some sort. So I agree it will be interesting to see how this shakes out.
County officials are obligated to protect people and property rights. The problems of industrial wind are now well known. Placing wind development in residential areas violates this obligation. If the commissioners allow this, a full investigation should follow.
8:58 The problems you speak of are easily refuted. The area the turbines are proposed for is ag/residential which is the same for almost every wind project in the US. The commissioners relying on science rather than SFS rhetoric does not warrant an investigation but rather a commendation.
8:58 County officials are obligated to protect people and property rights. YOUR opinion is that there are significant problems with developing wind projects on rural farmland. However the commissioners and the zoning board are obligated to use facts and science in their decisions not your opinion. Relying on your opinion rather than documented facts violates their obligation to defend the people and their respective rights. The commissioners should defend the people and their rights while paving the way for a more prosperous Somerset County and providing for economic security for all the counties fiscal obligations.
PG is here to stay, we got an office, a couple employees, bought hats for our followers and now we are just going to stay and agitate all those no good SFS people.
10:11 If Somerset Counties EDC baited a business projected to provide 2.9 million in yearly county revenues into the area I applaud them.
PG had better do a little more research if they do not believe that most farmers in this county get from $100,000 - $300,000 a year in farm subsidies. It was actually in the DT a few years back with names. PG can't possible believe that farmers need a few extra bucks from windmill leases in order to survive.
10:01 Yes that is exactly why they came here, not to do business and make money but to agitate you. You have finally uncovered the great secret of the project. It wasn't about bringing in a business that would be great for the area....it was about giving out hats and agitating you. Since you have finally figured this out why don't you go sit in a corner and sulk that someone might be able to do something with their property that you don't like and try to cheer yourself up by dwelling on how you finally figured it all out.
If they had been honest 10:05 it would have been different. They made false promises that they couldn't keep. I call that being dishonest. What legitimate business would believe anything that they were told by the EDC now?
I got me a lease and I can't wait until I get my next payment. This is better than my EBT and SNAP card.
10:07 Aside from the fact it really is none of your concern how much anyone makes I don't think Pioneer is here specifically to pay landowners or even necessarily pump millions into the county. They are here to business and a fortunate side effect of that is some landowners will turn a profit on their investment and the county will get nearly 3 million per year in revenues.
I take it you don't really know how businesses work?
PG claims Somerset is so poor and can't even afford paved roads. I have a suggestion, the state of MD only cuts grass along the roadsides about 2 or 3 times a year. Why does Somerset cut all the grass along the road sides 10 or more times? Somerset needs to cut back spending like the state has done and is doing. County grass cutting along the roads 2 or 3 times a year is enough. More than that is wastefull.
Does anyone really think that if you owned your own property and wanted to build one windmill for your own use the county would allow it? I don't think so, you would probably be laughed out of the P&Z office and CC office. We just saw where Ocean City denied a property owner permission to build one on their own property. Why are we even discussing building 50 windmills in Somerset now? This project should be killed and buried ASAP.
No doubt this puppy will top the Johnson story.
Maybe PG can decorate these things to look like giant red wood trees. New Jersey makes cell towers look like giant pine trees. Red wood trees in Somerset, now that would draw some tourist. EDC could get on board with that I'm sure.
Some things PG says just baffle my mine. PG said "Somerset needs more electricity". They say we are poor, we know we are few in numbers and are mostly rural and agriculture. Why the he$$ do we need more electricity? I would think Wicomico and Woreester would need a lot more than Somerset. I haven't heard any electric company saying that they are having trouble supplying Somerset county with electricity. One really needs to think about what PG is telling us, frankly I believe they will tell us anything that they think we will believe to scare us into supporting wind mills.
I got me one of dem dar contracts. If I get me a couple more I'm going to move to Florda. Don't want dem wind mill throwing ice on my head.
10:15 When has Pioneer ever claimed the county couldn't afford roads?
10:10 Do you have any proof of false promises or is this yet another unfounded charge of corruption made by the opposition?
10:11 I have never had either but from what you say you probably wouldn't know the difference between rightful profit and welfare.
10:10 If you have evidence of the EDC making false promises report it. But I don't see how that has anything to do with Pioneer.
10:15 Among the numerous items the county has to pay for already the county will soon need to pick up teachers pensions. Do you think cutting back on cutting grass would anywhere near come close to covering that single bill? Are you saying we don't need private business we will just stop cutting grass? You guys are hilarious.
Yes 10:15 we don't need private business here in Somerset. We will just pay the bills by cutting out the grass cutting! Great idea!
The Pacific Hydro study recently conducted at a wind farm in Australia dispels the notion that turbine related health issues are psychosomatic. This first of its kind study/experiment proves that exposure to operating turbines does affect health. This is a breakthrough study that was done with the permission of the wind facility and performed by an acoustic scientists. Wind energy wreaks havoc with the human body through low frequency noise exposure. It is a known fact that the frequencies emitted from turbines affect humans neurological functions because the inner ear reacts to the pressure of noise. This is technical and involves acoustic science and medical science. There are several experts who can explain this. Locally we have Dr. Ryan Taylor and Dr. Randy George. In the US there is Rick James, Paul Schomer, and Dr. Nina Pierpont. There are dozens of others. Even the WHO recognizes that human exposure to audible and LFN noise created by industrial wind is a problem. You can see the PG guy has an agenda. He is trying to discredit SFS but it will not work because he is twisting the truth and using studies bought and paid for by wind to do it.
Placing industrial wind here will create tax dollars for the county but it will also cost nearby citizens more dollars than the small amount they are promising the county thru lower property values and higher utility rates. These two things in themselves will deter economic development here. This is obvious to us and should be to our commissioners.
The Pioneer Green/Turbine cheerleader is one person who has a signed contract with Pioneer Green. He demonizes the poultry industry to make wind look more favorable. His wife abruptly left the Board of Education and now works in the county office building in the finance department. So she receives her income from the Somerset County commissioners aka our hard earned tax dollars. Her name is Vicki Miller.
If these industrial units are placed on agricultural land the real estate assessment must also be charged at industrial rates. The area to be assessed should be the entire setback area because no development can be done within that zone.
11:11 Check out the turbine study on the Health Canada website. They did the usual sound test and questionnaires but also measured blood pressure, pulse and stress hormones. While the questionnaires did find annoyance no evidence of elevated stress was found in the blood pressure, pulse or stress hormones. It is funny that you mention Dr. George. Did you know he wanted turbines and was all for it until he found out an Ag easement kept him out of the project? Dr. Taylor has his conclusions of course but if you want to rely on the experience of your group among the proponents there is a pathologist that used to work at John Hopkins and actually worked on humans, there is also a pediatric MD and a graduate student studying pathology and toxicology among the proponents. You list a few names on here. Check out the credentials of the panel behind the Massachusetts study which by the way was not paid for by the wind industry. You can also read the work of of your opposition supports previously cited which stated approximately 2.5% of people might be sensitive to LFN, much less than the amount of people with asthma that would suffer from your leaders chicken house fans.
11:25 You may not know this but wind turbines in Somerset are not zoned industrial and in most counties in the US they are not zoned industrial.
11:14 Please scroll up and read all the references already cited that refute the myth that turbines have a negative effect on health and property values. If your having trouble finding them in this thread just say so and I will re-post them all.
Re: 11:46 We appreciate your offer PG. You and other wind power supporters must have spent bundle to get the results you wanted.
11:22 Stop with the cowardly personal attacks by innuendo. If you have something to say about Vicki Miller than say it straight out and put your name on it. Tell us exactly what you mean when you say "she abruptly left the Board of Education". What are you implying? What is your point about her working in the county office? Better yet make any accusation you have to make publicly with a letter to the county times with your name on it!
@11:14 Once again you state wind energy will raise electric rates so once again I will point out that was refuted in the first study submitted by SFS. So tell me which is it? Are the studies submitted by SFS garbage or does wind energy LOWER electric prices as stated in the study?
@11:28 What you say about the pathologist who supports the GB project is true but you should also point out his home is only 700' from a proposed turbine site. He will live closer to a turbine than anyone else in the county. He has spent many hours researching possible health effects, as he will be on the front line. He has formed his conclusions from an educated study of all science on the matter and testified (without any compensation) in favor of the Great Bay project.
If in fact the poultry industry is bad for health and safety why in the world would we want another industry that is just as bad or worse to add to the problem. PG says chicken houses are loud so what are they going to be when we add the windmill noise to the chicken house noise? You don't have to be a PHD to know that the more noise you add the worse it will be.
@12:17 That is actually a good point. The difference is the setbacks. Depending on the exact height the turbines will be 1400'plus from the property line. The SFS leader has a poultry house 30' from a public road thus it is very hypocritical for them to accuse GB of ruining Somerset. For clarification no one from PG has ever said a negative word about the poultry industry. SFS repeatedly has made the claim turbines don't belong in an area zoned ag/residential. Supporters have pointed out that this area has many businesses including poultry farms. When writing zoning ordinance you generally look at what is already in the area and the required setbacks. Poultry houses are louder than turbines, they stink, they emit molds, allergens and dust and also contribute to polluting our Bay. This is just pointing out obvious truth. They are still only required to have a 75' setback. Everyone I know involved with the GB project also supports the poultry industry.
@11:56 The big money being spent on this issue is coming from the fossil fuel industry. If any research is being influenced on this issue it is against wind energy.
Maybe Vicki can explain why she left the board of education abruptly. No accusations were made, just facts stated. She receives her pay from the taxpayers who will bear the "hidden costs" of industrial wind. While working at the board of education she also received her salary from taxpayers. I think we deserve some answers especially with the allegations being whispered. By the way, is she related to the Simpkins or Boston clan? How about you Kevin?
Does Scott Tawes still do the Board of Education audit?
By the way, the Canadian study was funded by the liberal government that paid the bulk of the money to install the turbines. The people who had moved away because of the intolerable conditions were omitted from the study. Sorry Kevin, another debunked study!!!
Too bad our land hoarders are some DUMB and GREEDY!
Explain "abruptly left the Board of Education". Did she give notice? What allegations are being whispered? Tell us more! We the people want to know!
PG, why do you keep comparing yourself to poultry farms. Poultry are part of agriculture, wind turbines are not. The land is zoned agriculture/residential. This zoning is what we moved here based on.
I'm with you 3:29. Chicken houses blend in with the local terrain. I hardly notice them even if they are 30 from the road. Windmills on the other hand can be seen from miles away and just look totally out of place in this area.
PG is getting down right pathetic. In the same comment above at 12:52 PG says "For clarification no one from PG has ever said a negative word about the poultry industry". In the very same comment they say "Poultry houses are louder than turbines, they stink, they emit molds, allergens and dust and also contribute to polluting our Bay". This is what I've been trying to point out, no one should believe anything that PG is saying because all they are trying to do is mislead the uninformed and produce a bunch of studies they they know the uneducated folks can't even understand.
If windmills were a good source of energy I'm sure Delmarva Power and Choptank electric companies would be building their own. They would not let some out of towners build them and take away their profits.
@2:11 LOL! So a study commissioned by the Government can't be trusted but you trust wind watch implicitly even after they've left you with egg on your face over and over again. Do you ever go back and read some of your nutty arguments? @ 3:29 Then why do they call them wind FARMS?
Nearing the 1/2 way point of 500. PG is researching more studies to bless us with. I just can't wait to read some more boring studies from other continents.
I would suggest putting a windmill in the middle of Washington DC. There is more hot air there than any where in the US. Could probably generate enough electric to serve the entire east coast.
Very interesting that the PG spokesman's wife works for the county. Maybe another ethics investigation is in order. Frankly, all of this will probably end up in a court someday. May the right side win.
This is the panel of the Canadian study. Do you really want to question the integrity of this study with these well known scientists and their credentials? The experts listed below were asked to investigate and analyze existing literature and
publish their findings in this report; their current positions and/or qualifications for
inclusion are also provided.
• W. David Colby, M.D.: Chatham-Kent Medical Officer of Health (Acting); Associate
Professor, Schulich School of Medicine & Dentistry, University of Western Ontario
• Robert Dobie, M.D.: Clinical Professor, University of Texas, San Antonio; Clinical
Professor, University of California, Davis
• Geoff Leventhall, Ph.D.: Consultant in Noise Vibration and Acoustics, UK
• David M. Lipscomb, Ph.D.: President, Correct Service, Inc.
• Robert J. McCunney, M.D.: Research Scientist, Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Department of Biological Engineering; Staff Physician, Massachusetts General Hospital
Pulmonary Division; Harvard Medical School
• Michael T. Seilo, Ph.D.: Professor of Audiology, Western Washington University WIND TURBINE SOUND AND HEALTH EFFECTS
AN EXPERT PANEL REVIEW
1-2
• Bo Søndergaard, M.Sc. (Physics): Senior Consultant, Danish Electronics Light and
Acoustics (DELTA)
Mark Bastasch, an acoustical engineer with the consulting firm of CH2M HILL, acted as
technical advisor to the panel.
PG has been using scare tactics from day one. I remember a song that went something like "got along without you before I met you, I can get along without you now". This song was so true and certainly seems to fit the bill with PG. I love that song!
Studies, studies, I want more studies!
@2:09 Abruptly left the Board of Education is an allegation itself. Be specific quit hiding behind anonymous and innuendo to try to make allegations against someones character. What are you trying to imply when you say that? Are you saying Vicki did not give notice? If she did then why would you call her leaving abrupt? Are you saying she was asked to leave, if so then say so clearly. Are you implying improper actions of any kind, then say so clearly. Dan Kuebler is involved with SFS and on the school board why don't you ask him? IF you have legitimate questions you want answers for why would you ask them on a blog hiding behind anonymous?
@3:51 Your lack of reading comprehension is showing again. Go back and read 12:52 carefully. PG has never said a word about the poultry industry, Supporters have made the legitimate comparison.@ 3:55 You should do a little research before commenting! None of the electric companies own their own generation of any kind.
I'm more interested in the Miller family member that stole millions from his company. After all, the original topic of this post was about conflicts of interest.
3:55 Almost no power company builds their own source of energy. Companies specialize in power development and then sell the project. So your same argument applies to all forms of energy. 3:51 Are you disputing that poultry houses are louder, stink and emit mold? I think every proponent believes Somerset County needs the poultry industry. But many proponents see the hypocrisy of SFS complaining about noise and aesthetics of turbines while the same arguments apply to the poultry industry. 3:45 According to YOU they look out of place in this area. The zoning board and commissioners are required to rely on facts. As it has been proven time and time again that wind turbines have no effect on the housing market your opinion is really quite worthless.
@ 4:16 Could you name the scare tactics you accuse PG of or is this just another baseless SFS allegation? You imply Somerset is doing just fine without GB I guess you see no problem with a 30% poverty rate, crumbling schools, high unemployment rate,low incomes and high crime rates.
2:11 The study was done by Health Canada and Statistics Canada both of which are quite well respected. It is highly doubtful that there were indicators of stress that were missed because everyone that was effected had packed up, managed to sell their house, managed to buy another house and left the area just before the study started. This study involved over 2000 households out of which 1238 were sampled. Do you really think 1238 people had packed up and left? If your off the wall theory were true then wouldn't the new people that moved in display symptoms of stress?
4:16 Your group files bogus ethics complaints against nearly everyone involved in office that doesn't agree with you and you really want to accuse PG of scare tactics?
@4:16 - what scare tactics does PG use? And please be specific. And then please re-read what SFS has posted and clarify how they aren't scare tactics.
The same reason you hide behind anonymous 4:26. You put up a lot of F.S. and hide behind anonymous so others can do the same.
Who puts up all the studies that we are suppose to have faith in? Anonymous does. If you want us to believe your studies post YOUR name please.
Is there no even one lease holder that will come on here and defend this project and sign his name. I doubt it and it seems that PG themselves are ashamed to put a name with there comments.
2:11 You call the hosting land owners dumb and greedy but most of them were smart enough to build successful businesses for themselves without having to have everything given to them.
I thought all SFS members were nut cases. Dan Kuebler is on the school board and is a pretty intelligent guy as far as I know. Since I'm not a SFS member I have no way of knowing who the members are, please enlighten us some more.
The few SFS members that have been named on this site are all intelligent well respected people. From what I've seen it's the PG folk's that are rather sleazy people making a lot of untrue statements.
This is a Literature Review on Wind Turbines from Australia. "Information Paper: Evidence on Wind Farms and Human Health" This is their conclusion." After careful consideration and deliberation, NHMRC concluded that there is currently no consistent
evidence that wind farms cause adverse health effects in humans. This finding reflects the results
and limitations of the direct evidence and also takes into account parallel evidence on the health
effects of similar emissions from other sources."
3:59 It is nice of you to basically inform us that you don't read into any studies when you make up stuff about the wind industry. I am sure wind watch and youtube do a fine job of informing you. BTW Canada isn't on another continent.
@4:58 You are certainly entitled to your own taste in people. You obviously don't mind people that make unsubstantiated claims of corruption, use innuendo to make allegations, lie and use fear mongering to get their way. As far as Kuebler, in public he claimed turbines were so big they had helicopter landing pads on them and that Crisfield Airport was one of only two airports on the shore with paved runways. As a retired pilot he cannot claim ignorance on these matters.
Hi PG cheerleader, please stop talking to yourself because no one is listening to your lies and biased studies any more.
4:51 The proponents have listed sources and documented facts, it is fine to discuss facts with documented sources on an anonymous blog. It's is not fine to slander public officials, trash people names and make unsubstantiated claims of cooruption while hiding behind anonymous. If you think there is a ethics matter or cooruption then sign your name to it.
4:58 If you have seen an untrue statement made by a proponent than list it and provide sources to refute it.
6:30 you SFS people keep insisting lies are being told and yet you cannot name the lie or offer anything to refute it. You honestly remind me of 6yr olds being told santa isn't real. Where are the lies? What is you evidence of the contrary? That you guys cannot offer any evidence of your claims to me proves SFS is full of it. Is there really only one person in the opposition that can name any reason behind their theories?
Where is the bias in the studies? Can you name it? How was it biased? How could it have been done better? That you cannot name any of these just shows that the opposition has nothing. Since you have nothing to back up your claims I have to ask what is really driving the opposition. Is it really jealousy and greed? Or is it a bunch of people terrified of any form of change?
6:30 Hi SFS blind follower. Obviously your listening so maybe you'll get feeling really ambitious and start reading some studies an doing your own research rather than relying on wind watch and SFS to tell you what to think. If you decide to actually start researching the topic I would welcome you as a supporter of the project.
I have to admit that it is hopeless to ever get PG to understand that people have the right to object to this project and they don't have to provide studies in order not to like it. Let's face it some people like snakes, I personally do not like snakes and I don't have to provide any study in order to justify my likes or dislikes. If a neighbor wanted to raise snakes I would object to that also and I think a lot of others would as well. We just don't like windmills or snakes. PG knows the majority of folks don't like this project but they continue bombarding us with studies that we are not interested in. Show me a study where it says the majority of people in this country would want a gigantic farm as a neighbor. Go ahead now PG guy and pick this apart and accused me of being a part of SFS which I'm not. Mislead the people some more.
PG guy, are you drinking again? No one ever said that Canada was on another continent.
If you want to know an untrue statement by PG, 6:42, it would be that all anti windmill commenters are associated with SFS. That is just not true and no study is needed to prove it.
I can not believe the arrogance of PG. They think they can come into a county and spread some money around and then basically own the county and it's officials and do whatever the he$$ they want. I hope they leave here with there tails between their legs.
Why would the people of Somerset forego their tranquility and agree to pay higher utility bills? Property values will drop for properties within 2 miles of a turbine. This is a fact as evidenced by the assessment department in VT. Other wind hosting areas have suffered the same fate when turbine are sited too close to people. Michigan is a great example and Scotland banks are refusing to lend money on homes in close proximity. Please search Forbes.com.
Germany invested heavily in wind and their electricity rates have skyrocketed. In 2014, German wind turbines produced less than 15% of the time forcing it to purchase energy from its neighbors at premium rates. Germany is now constructing coal fired plants to offset the energy disaster that wind has created.
Paint the towers green, the blades yellow and the turbine brown. The County can become a huge tourist attraction with the State flower "the black eyed susan". Imagine all the tourists coming to view them.
The current commissioners wrote the ethics ordinance and then failed to abide by it. I believe the chart speaks for itself. I guess the commissioners thought they would get away with it because they always have in the past.
You guys are a joke. All Negative (except Dr. Klopp) are from non native come here like Dr Randy George. Somerset is a small close knit community. Its not crooked its just a good ole fashioned community and these are good people. We keep seeing the reoccurring theme of you unhappy New Jersey Yankee bastards coming down here to enjoy our way of life yet all the while trying to bring your New Jersey BS down here. Lets keep the Windmills and send the implants back to the city.
Money can buy everything these days, right Jerry?
The PG guy must have had a rough night and is sleeping in this morning. I really miss his fantasy stories. Hope that he wakes up soon and gives us some good laughs.
Now that is funny 9:22. Keep up the good work!
Sane people agree with you 8:56. It's only the liberals and PG followers that would disagree.
This country has enough fossil fuel to last for hundreds of years. It is very foolish to be wasting good money building windmills when it is totally unnecessary.
10:46, believe me, you are wrong. I've lived in Somerset all my life and so have many others that are opposed to this silly wind mill BS. You obviously have a contract so you want a little money in your pocket. I could agree with you about sending some of the transplants back to where they came from. Let's start with the Texas windmill guys. They are the ones that want to change the county for their own benefit.
If that PG guy doesn't wake up we will never make 1000 comments.
I don't see Jerry Bostons nephew (Dana Simpkins Boston) on the chart. Jerry is related to the simpkins since his brother married Rex and Kriks sister. This seems like a rather close relationship to most. Dana also works or worked in the law office of Kirk Simpkins. This family affair seems almost to weird to believe but sometimes life is stranger than fiction.
I would love to see a study on how many communities in the US would welcome a wind mill farm and how many would oppose it. Now that would be a study worth reading.
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. SFS are elitists?No,the people who want this wind project are the ones who send their kids to private school and lord over all us minions.
Look around and tell me why all the influential families in this county are intermarried.Someone should sit Scott Tawes down and explain to him that he can't take his money or property with him when they bury him!
Someone mentioned Tawes does the BOE audit,which is a laugh,because for some strange reason,he is the accountant/auditor for several county departments thanks to family connections in charge of the county.We need an outside investigator with no bias to look into all this.A person with no connections here has no hope of ever getting ahead,which is why so many young people are SMART and leave this shithole county.
11:33 So based on your assessment of reserve fossil fuels we should not allow private investment in other forms of energy?
8:29 Pioneer has never claimed any ownership of the county. To the contrary SFS has claimed some sort of controlling interest in their neighbors property.
The mention of tourism came up. In my experience having traveled a lot turbines do attract tourism. I have seen many wind farms that have pull off spots where people can stop and observe turbines. This could be another great soure of revenue for the county.
8:20 Actually as the Canadian study was being discussed someone came on talking about proponents citing sources from other continents. I assumed as the opposition can't seem to get any other fact right that this person was erroneously claiming Canada was another continent. After all the crazy allegations spouted at the zoning meetings by the opposition it wouldn't have surprised me.
8:25 if you are going to classify that as a lie the. SFS is just as guilty as every proponent on here is refered to as Pioneer Green. I believe this hypocrisy has bee pointed out. Surely as every proponent on here has been accused of lying te opposition can come up with something better than that if they have been truthful.
12:07 if you really feel that way about the county then by all means don't let us stop you from leaving.
Scott Tawes gets around -- he's also involved in the Hebron Bank scandal -- can you say "Plantations"?
Pioneer Green looks for places like Somerset County -- run by a few inbred families as a fiefdom for their gain and benefit, with few persons of intelligence.
They didn't count on the folks at Safe for Somerset, a fatal mistake. I guess Scott Tawes didn't to tell them that some of us don't do what his crowd wants.
@12:07-a little research will tell you that TGM Group, LLC does the audit for the Board of Education. I believe that PKS and Company does some audits of county agencies and TGM Group does some other County auditing also.
@11:59: Ask the SFS cheerleader where her children went to school. Not that it's relevant to wind energy, but if you are going to claim "people who want this wind project are the ones who send their kids to private school and lord over all us minions" you should do a little more fact checking.
@8:56 Your comment really shows hoe desperate you are! Vermont dropped the assessment value on ONE house by 12% to stop one family from whining! Not only that I think that's the third time that has been brought up and shot down on this thread.
@9:04 Germany got itself into a bind with electricity because they shut down their nuclear reactors. Wind Energy has actually saved them from being in a far deeper mess. Their electric prices have come way down the last couple of years as they have added turbines to replace the reactors they shut down.
@11:54 A 2014 bipartisan poll revealed that 87% of Midwesterners support increasing the use of wind energy. http://cleantechnica.com/2014/09/12/midwesterners-increasingly-favor-renewable-energy/ n April 2014 poll of 600 Ohio voters found that 72% favor renewable energy over traditional power plants. Respondents overwhelmingly favor replacing coal-fired power plants with wind farms and solar arrays and requiring utilities to help customers use less electricity. http://media.cleveland.com/business_impact/other/Ohio%20Statewide%20Energy%20Survey%20Results.pdf March 2013: According to a Gallup poll, two in three Americans want the United States to produce domestic energy using solar power (76%), wind (71%), and natural gas (65%). Only 46% want to emphasize the production of oil and 37% the use of nuclear power. http://www.gallup.com/poll/161519/americans-emphasis-solar-wind-natural-gas.aspx March 2013: Purdue University studies show that Indiana residents are overwhelmingly receptive to wind farms in their communities. http://phys.org/news/2013-03-midwesterners-farms-rural-areas.html February 2013: Vermonters continue to support the idea of building wind turbines along the state’s ridgelines, according to a recent poll conducted by the Castleton Polling Institute at Castleton State College. http://www.castleton.edu/about-castleton/the-castleton-polling-institute/poll-results/castleton-poll-examines-vermonters-views-on-wind-power/ November 2012: Nearly three-fourths of Michigan voters want to see expansion of the state’s use of renewable energy, according to a poll. http://www.michiganlcv.org/news-press/news-archives/news-story-2012-11-15-8858 November 2012: According to the Yale Project on Climate Change Communication, "Nearly all Americans (92%) say the president and the Congress should make developing sources of clean energy a “very high” (31%), “high” (38%), or “medium” priority (23%). Very few say it should be a low priority (8%)." http://environment.yale.edu/climate-communication/article/Policy-Support-September-2012/ April 2010: A poll found a strong majority of Nebraska voters (79%) favors requiring electric utilities to use renewable energy sources for at least 20% of the electricity they generate. http://www.cfra.org/NE-Wind-Poll-2010
Some Property Values Studies that show a positive impact Edinburgh Solicitors Property Centre (2007) Sterzinger, Beck and Kostiuk (2003) Bobechko and Bourne (2006) Studies that show no statistical change Hoen,Wiser, Cappers, Thayer and Sethi (2009) Braunholtz and McWhannell (2003) Grover (2002) Theron (2010) Poletti (2009) Bond (2008) Sims,Dent,and Oskrochi (2008) Lloyd,Jr (2007) Poletti (2007) Goldman and Goldman (2006) Hoen (2006) Loyd,Jr (2006) Poletti (2005) Beck (2004) Jerabek (2001) Robertson Bell Associates (1998) Robertson Bell Associates (1997) Atkinson-Palombo, C.; Hoen, B. (2014)Hinman, J.L. (2010) Hoen, B.; Brown, J.P.; Jackson, T.; Wiser, R.; Thayer, M.; Cappers, P. (2013)
how do all these people know a wind turbine works when they live in their parent's basement????????????????????
Record amount of wind power capacity installed across EU in 2014, more than new gas and coal capacity combined, reports BusinessGreen
"The 2014 figures look very good. That was the best year for the buildup of wind energy in Germany. The industry can be very satisfied," said Hermann Albers, President of the German Wind Energy Association (BWE).
In 2014 wind turbines with a total output of 4.8 gigawatts (GW) were installed. Since 2015, these devices have generated over 38 GW of power in Germany, covering approximately 10 percent of the country's demand for power.
And for 2015, the prospects are good. The wind industry expects an additional 3.5 to four GW. To facilitate Germany's transition to renewable energies, a decisive buildup of wind power is necessary, since photovoltaics and biomass took a strong hit in the last two years.
But wind power "made up for the deficit," said Albers.
Nuclear disaster as accelerator
The strong buildup of windpower is a consequence of the Fukushima nuclear disaster. In a broad consensus, Germany decided to phase out nuclear power in 2011. Eight nuclear reactors went immediately off the grid, and the last nine should be shut down by 2022.
To cover this power gap, German states strongly pushed for the development of wind energy and designated new areas of land for wind turbines. Planning to installation took two to three years, and the success of the measures is now paying off: The buildout of wind energy more than doubled from 2011 to 2014.
Your lone statement shoots down an arguments 2:14? I don't think so. You can repeat the same misleading statements over and over but that doesn't make it true. No tax assessor would ever lower ones taxes because someone was whining. That is just ludicrous.
Where's the proof 2:18, I need proof, I don't believe you, why should I believe an anonymous post?
1:33 I cannot tell you how grateful I am to have a nise edu-macated out of tawner like yoself to come in and save us po helpless redneks. Hawever I cant help but notice that the people soparting dis project have listed a lot of infarmation and a lot of sarces. I looked threw dis thread and I jus cant find a whole lot of infarmation from SFS. I went and got my Aunt Gertrude to help me find you alls website and while the youtube videos were real helpful and all I jus couldnt find a whole lot of sarces, you know edu-macated material other than what someone listed here that another one of you edu-macated people tore apart. I have seen you people who stand against this make a lot of claims but as my Uncle Bubba always said "Ne'er believe anyone who wont name der sarce." Now I knows yall busy people and all but a lot of down right good business people in the area (you know smart like) have said this is a great thing and have given a lot of sarces fo it, do you have anything to contradict dem as far as real edu-macated material or are we po humble folks supposed to just take you at yar word? I just cant help but think those folks suparting dis project really have done their homework and those against seem to be relyin on wind watch and youtube and as my Great Uncle Beauford said "ya cant believe every thing in dem dang blasted videos."
No one is opposed to private investment in alternative energy. Just find a place that welcomes it. Somerset is not the place for that private investment even though it wouldn't be entirely private. Say what you want but tax payers money would be spent on this project.
Is it true SFS's chief bellyacher Kagan has left the county?
Like Bill O'Riely would say "I'm a simply man and everything has a simple solution."
If windmills are so desired why doesn't PG just go to an area where the people would welcome them? Seems like an easy solution to me.
3:55 The hosting landowners have welcomed it and the project would occur on their property. Say what you will but this project is entirely investor funded. If you continue to dispute this then please explain how taxpayer money would be on the line?
@3:51 Your not going to believe anything I give you. Just Goggle Germany Wind Energy and read a few articles.The disaster at Japan’s Fukushima nuclear power plant in early 2011 caused Germany to shut down most of its nuclear power plants. Should not be hard to confirm, just get off of wind watch.
3:49 Once again please real the real estate studies posted which examined thousands of properties. Don't believe me...read them! You continue to argue that a single house assessment somehow compares to studies involving thousands of houses? That really does a lot to show your definition of credible information.
@ 3:55 Tell us what taxpayer money? Wind energy is the only form of electrical generation now without any form of subsidies or tax credits of any kind.
@3:49 The link was on the SFS facebook page. They were proud of it! It was submitted by them on another blog. I have noticed the SFS people really seem to have horrible reading comprehension skills. It was all about a 12% reduction in Vermont assessments but if you read the story it was clear it was only referring to one home. If you google the name of the home owners you will find they have been objecting to this wind farm since before it was built. BTW if you do a little research you will find they were the only homeowners complaining.
@3:55 LOL!!!!!
Can't tell if you are pro or con 3:55 but it's funny either way.
@3:55 - the Edu-macated One. LOL
@3:55 - please provide proof for your statement that tax payers money would be spent on this project. Cite a source that specifically states tax payer money would be used on this project.
How bout you explaining how they can be built without subsidy 4:58. Seems like a lot of money to borrow. The burden is upon you to prove your case. Again, exactly how will the project be financed.
If wind is the only electrical generation without subsidy then may be government doesn't think that it is worthy of subsidy. I can't think of any other reason.
If subsidy has temporarily expired no doubt it will be reinstated in the near future and that is what PG is planning on. Just wait until Obama opens the flood gates on money again. More stimulus, more grants, more, more, more of everything until the country is totally bankrupt.
I do not think PG has commented yet on the denial by Ocean City to allow a property owner permission to build a windmill on their property. If everything PG said were true then PG should be fighting for the rights of the Ocean City property owner. It seems they are ignoring the situation completely, wonder why?
@5:30 You make the claim that the GB project will use taxpayer money, without showing any evidence, and its my job to prove they don't? You really need to get over yourself! Either cite some tax code or law providing GB with taxpayer money or admit this was just another unfounded baseless accusation!
You guys are all over the place. As of right now the PTC has expired. It may or may not be reinstated and this fight is in D.C. For whichever side of it your on, not with a private business that's moved into the area. First you whine about wind receiving a tax incentive like every other form of energy. Then it is proven that as of now there is no tax incentive. Then 5:36 says the project must be no good because it doesn't get a tax incentive. Either way a tax incentive does not find a project or put tax money at risk. If the project is a success then the project will pay its due taxes, if it doesn't then the taxpayers lose nothing. There are no grants or stimulus money involved in this project so that comment lacked any relevance.
5:30 If they are built without tax credits then it will be because they can turn a profit without tax credits. Who they are financed by is hardly you concern, despite what you say Pioneer does not have a burden to disclose who their potential financiers are although there are a number of financial institutions that can and do finance multi million dollar project to businesses in good financial standing.
5:30 Even when the PTC was in effect that didn't cover the cost of production. The PTC was a write off on production the entire cost of building had to be covered either in cash or with financing. Now there is no PTC so yes if that isn't reinstated the project would be the first form of energy to not get a tax credit. Either way there is no tax money at risk on the project.
Somerset County is a breed of it's own down there. Remember when Kristy Hickman, the States Attorney was deleting everything off her county computers.
4:08 Pioneer has been welcomed by many people, both those who wanted to do business with them and those that wanted to see the dire economic prospects improve in the county. Many people see increased county revenues, possible increased tourism, jobs and participating business owners thriving as a great alternative to a stagnant economy, further repressed property values due to a stagnant economy and an inevitable tax increase. Pioneer has invested in the county and leased the land they need. They shouldn't have to take a loss on their investment because you don't like them. As you say there is a simple solution. If you and your friends in SFS don't like your neighbors, the county and the businesses in the county then by all means find somewhere that is more to your liking. Yukon Alaska is probably not feasible for wind development. Maybe you can find a HOA there so you can have some measure of control on how big your neighbor can build his igloo.
Very funny 7:48, I'm glad that you have a sense of humor.
Fact is that we were here first and there are more of us then there are of you. We will not be leaving and will continue this fight at all levels until the war is over. May the best side win.
8:41 I am not quite sure what you mean. I was born and raised here, my family has been here for multiple generations, so I am not sure how you feel you have been here longer than me. You feel there are more of you? Very debatable, but pointless to argue. If that was supposed to be another SFS intimidation tactic it failed miserably same as all the others they have tried. Considering Kagen just put your petition signatures as low as 200 (down from a thousand a few months ago btw) and there are over 200 participating landowners not to mention their families and all the non-participating supporters I am skeptical of your claims but as I said pointless to debate. The proponents have a right to legally develop their land and earn a livelihood. You have a right to cope with your neighbors, cope with the businesses that legally come into the area, or don't. Your choice. Same choice everyone else has. Stop expecting everyone else to curb their livelihoods and curb their property usage to suit your whims. Your expectation for Pioneer to pack up and leave based on your whims considering their investment is unrealistic. Earlier comments berating the people of this county are uncalled for and lead me to believe you would be happier minus our company and the presence of Pioneer. I'm not leaving, I doubt many of the hosting landowners are leaving considering their business and property is here and as I stated Pioneer probably isn't leaving anytime soon considering their investment. So as I said before you can live with us or leave. No humor to it. It's not meant to be as sharp as it sounds, that's just reality.
Somerset will get turbines just based on the FACT that the County Commissioner's President, County Attorney and their numerous family members have already invested in this coming to Somerset. After all, the politics and cash is already in the bag and this will be a done deal. We should all love and support the corruption and unethical behaviors of our County leaders because we're basically condoning their corruption and unethical behaviors by remaining silent. Long live the regime!!
8:41 I was born and raised here and my family has been here for several generation so I don't see how your making your claim you have been here longer than me (or the majority of the people concerned). I also very skeptical of your claim that you outnumber the proponents. Kagen just a couple weeks ago placed as few as 200 signatures (despite Monheiser claiming 1000+ a few months back) on your petition. Putting aside non participating supporters and family members there are over 200 participating landowners. This is honestly fairly irrelevant. I will not be leaving and I doubt many of the other supporters will be leaving as the own businesses and property in the area. As such you can either deal with your neighbors (including businesses in the area) and the decisions they make for their property....or don't. Their are people in the area that make decisions for their property I don't care for, but they are the ones paying the mortgage so that is their business and I don't see it as my place to interfere. It is not our duty to make property decisions to suit your whims.
11:40 I hope you are right and the area does get the turbines. May I ask how Laird or Simpkins have invested in this project? You make another allegation of corruption and say it is a fact, could we see the proof? If you are concerned with ethics then what do you have to say of the leader of SFS's conflict of interest? I assume you will be writing to file a complaint on the SFS leaders conflict of interest or are you just trashing public officials because you lost at the zoning board twice?
@11:40 Thankfully you have finally given up on posting the same old debunked lies just to see them countered with cited science,law and documented fact. Now if you could just develop a little character and stop making unsubstantiated claims of corruption. The plus side to this is hopefully word of this thread will reach the commissioners and they will read not only what SFS says about them and their families but also prominent business men in the county. Not to mention the disgusting accusations made with innuendo against loyal county employees. Hopefully this will inspire the commissioners to do what they should have done years ago and quite trying to appease fanatics and pass the FIRST proposed zoning ordinance! It is a well written logical ordinance that is well within industry standards. GB has invested millions in Somerset and has been more than patient waiting for an ordinance. Passing it would have the bonus of figuratively punching the SFS bullies in the nose. Something that is long overdue.
Two words say it all: Scott Tawes!
It is telling that citizens of Somerset understand that they are being sacrificed for the few wealthy land owners who will benefit. You, the PG rep, are the one making false accusations because you assume everyone opposed to this project is from SFS when there are no postings anywhere on this thread from SFS?
People can read through your relentless rantings. Fortunately, we are not as "poor and dumb" as those that represent us believe.
The pro-wind studies you continually site have been paid for by the wind industry and are worthless. Reality shows us that properties within 2 miles of a wind turbine lose value. It is fact. Your health studies and bird studies you cite have also been produced by wind dollars. The truth is there are massive numbers of birth deaths that go unreported because the wind industry regulates itself. The dirty truth about wind is revealing itself more and more each day as citizens who are living in this nightmare share their experience.
Hi PG cheerleader, don't you wonder why you are the only one in support of the Great Bay Wind project?
Seems like a silly point but since you accuse GB supporters of making false accusations I feel the need to point out another SFS lie. Simona St. Ives - Gillette posted by name if you go on SFS facebook page you can read her big coming out announcement. Also E. J. Monheiser has posted by name and is a well known SFS member who actually ran for public office on a anti turbine platform. I think she got like a dozen votes or something. You only need to read this thread to verify that once again GB supporters have been falsely accused of lying.
7:52 How would anyone be sacrificed as you claim? And please do not come back with the same baseless rhetoric again but rather a well thought out answer with real information and sources.
7:36 You people can't even make it past breakfast before you bring out more empty accusations of cooruption while hiding behind an anonymous post? If you want to slander someone's name or make an accusation then put it in the paper and sign your name to it. Grow a spine.
@ 8:02 and 8:02 Right we should ignore all scientific research because SFS just knows better! I encourage you to make that argument to the county commissioners! No I do not wonder about being the only one supporting GB as there are other posters putting up posts that support GB. You continue to try and make that point and I really wonder why. You fail miserably every time you try to discredit one of the supporters facts. As long as the supporters facts are correct what difference does it make whether they are made by one person or twenty?
8:02 So it is your argument that every study posted on here was paid off by the wind industry? That is the comeback argument you want to make? How could the wind industry pay off Berkley Labs, Jacobs France Institute, over 100 researchers and countless journals and the thousands of scientists used for the peer reviews? This suggestion you make is about as ridiculous theory I have ever heard. That this is all you have to offer really shows just how desperate the opposition is to make a point.
You really don't have to pay the liberals, they will always come down on the side of green energy. Liberals have bought into the global warming scare and will say or do anything to promote green energy. We here all the time about the scientist that have been lying about global warming for years, They are now getting exposed for the lies, finally.
This country is really screwed up. Our president vetoes the XL pipe line which would provide enough oil for 100 years and he would prefer building wind mills to generate expensive electricity. This is just insane.
A windmill just got shot down in Ocean City, what about their property rights PG guy, you seem to be avoiding answering that question.
Worester County will not allow even one windmill to be built and PG wants to build 50 in Somerset. Tell me again why they are so great.
Even Lewis De only built one. Why would they not build 50 more if they are so great?
SFS ha been whining for years now about how they didn't want GB because wind energy received a tax credit. Well that's gone but they want us to continue to buy electric from a subsidized coal plant in Delaware. SFS cry about bird deaths but again they want us to buy electricity from a out of state coal plant when coal kills far more birds than wind. They cry about wind energy destroying our scenic beauty when most people like the appearance of turbines but who likes the appearance of a coal strip mine. They claim concerns about the safety of turbines that are engineered to withstand a category 5 hurricane but ignore the thousands of miners who have died in coal mines. They talk about the health effects of noise from turbines, something the overwhelming scientific consensus disagrees with but they are fine with the undisputed health problems caused by burning fossil fuels. SFS should stop the hypocrisy and admit their opposition is fueled by nothing more than jealousy of what they perceive as their neighbors receiving a windfall.
9:58 Your first theory was that somehow the wind industry had secretly paid off every US Dept., University, every world wide scientific journal and all the scientists involved. Now your new theory is that the whole thing is a bunch of liberals lying. Do you actually read the stuff you posts? Does it occur to you that many scientists are quite conservative? Have you done enough reading to realize there are many scientists that do not endorse global warming? When you are spinning your conspiracy theories do you read them before posting to see how absurd they are? Let me pose this question for you. The fossil fuel industry is much larger, much richer and much more influential. If a group was actually capable of creating a mass scientific conspiracy wouldn't it be the fossil fuel industry? You do realize there is a large conservative base that supports renewable energy don't you?
8:02, 10:05 The Piltdown Man skull was "discovered" in the early 20th century. For 40 years, the worlds greatest scientists (at least in their own minds) expressed a "overwhelming scientific consensus" that this fossile was the ancestor to modern man. It was a hoax, just like global warming and useful renewable energy from wind turbines.
@ 9:58 I challenge you to go back through this thread and state where GB supporters have used global warming as a reason for wind energy. There are numerous far better reasons to support wind energy. Number one it's economical, two it diminishes our reliance on fossil fuels which produce all kinds of dangerous toxins, three it uses no fuel, all the expense is up front so it allows power companies to estimate costs 30 years in advance, four it's largely made in America so it keeps our money home instead of sending it to countries that hate us, fifth it diversifies our grid, this has numerous advantages such as making it less vulnerable to a natural disaster or terrorist attack. On a local level it provides 200 million in much needed investment, provides almost 3 million in local tax revenue annually and over a million injected into the local economy every year in the form of lease payments, payroll and maintenance.
9:58 You seem to be operating under the delusion that "green" energy is all about global warming. While many have used global warming to push green energy this is by far not the only reason to support it. Fossil fuels are a limited resource, while there are many different estimates as to how long fossil fuels will hold out a bigger concern is price fluctuation. Prices are down now but inevitably they will go back up. Wind, solar and hydroelectric do not require fuel purchases. After the project is built the price is set. Fossil fuels contain carcinogens which are released when burned. Generally not a risk with green energy.
@ 10:01 My opinion is the President is an idiot for voting down Keystone but what do you mean he prefers building turbines? He let a tax credit expire that was put in place by the first George Bush. As far as the OC turbine I mind my own business, a policy I wish SFS would adopt. Since you ask I think the wind industry has been hurt by improperly sited turbines and in the middle of OC would probably be a good example. If for no other reason turbines should not be that close to the water because of the impact on birds.
9:58 So we are now from all the research from all the journals, preformed by numerous institutions by numerous scientists being part of a massive conspiracy back to everyone involved is just lying. This has been stated before but let me ask again. Where is the lie? Where is the error in any of the data? How was the data not handled correctly? What evidence do you have to refute it? You say propert values will go up. Where is your evidence? The opponents listed a single case that involved a single house. The proponents listed multiple studies that involved thousands of houses at several ranges that showed no loss of property value and no deviation in sale frequency. You brought up birds and wildlife and listed nothing to substantiate your claims. The proponents listed several studies that showed no unsustainable loss.
10:17 If there is no useful energy created by wind turbines they why is a company ready to spent 200 million of private funding to install them?
@ 10:17 Again I would encourage you to use the argument that we should ignore all scientific studies and the overwhelming consensus on many of these issues on the county commissioners because of the Piltdown Man Skull. LOL!!!
Get over it PG, not once has anyone opposing windmills suggested any type of conspiracy. You are the one that is becoming delusional.
Another thing that escapes you is the fact that people have the right not to want something in there community and have the right to voice their opinion no matter weather it is right or wrong . You really need a better argument than property rights because everyone has some property rights no matter if you think they should or not.
10:48 It was just put up that all research articles cited had somehow been bought off by the wind industry. You backing off that claim now? Of course everyone has property rights, that is the point. Just as I have no right to control someone putting a chicken house, hog farm, shed or house addition on there property you have no right to dictate what I can put on mine minus some proof of negative effects which your rhetoric aside you have not been able to even come close to proving as it doesn't exists!
@10:48 You make the argument that as it has been pointed out SFS disagrees with the scientific community on every issue that is discussed and SFS no longer even disputes this that all the science is just wrong. How is that possible without a huge conspiracy? That is just as loony as the argument we should ignore all science because SFS just knows better. Did you forget your meds this morning?
Of course you have the right to express your opinion 10:48. You don't want turbines on my property or anyone else's in the area. Noted. But your opinion has no bearing on my property or anyone's property except your own. I can't tell you how often to cut your grass or where to put a barn, or to cut down a rotted tree in your yard and by that same standard you cannot dictate policy on my property.
@10:48 I agree completely! You have every right to go to the commissioners and tell them they should say no to a 200 million dollar investment just because you don't like them. I sure they will give your opinion as much thought as it deserves!
10:40 I'm not saying science doesn't matter, but a phoney "consensus" doesn't. As with Piltown, the skeptics are right.
11:11 So essentially what you are saying is it's not the scientist involved, the experiment, the funding source, the department that oversaw the project or the journal where is published, what matters to you is that they agree with you. Once again, what is not accurate about whichever of the numerous studies cited by proponents you are refering to? How is it not accurate? And what do you have in the way of credible information to contradict it?
11:11 That somehow all the science involved here is somehow coorupted is an opinion (and a fairly nutty one). You do not dictate what others can do with their property based on your opinion.
I noticed 10:31 and 10:32 are both posts supporting GB and both rather lengthy posts. If it is true as SFS keeps insisting that PG has hired one person to respond to blog posts all day and they are the only one posting in support of GB they are extremely fast at typing.
It's funny how 8:02 claims the posted bird studies were paid off by the wind industry but a few months back on a different blog the opposition tried to use the exact same studies apparently having failed to read them through.
@11:52 SFS has shown over and over again they have very poor reading comprehension abilities. Just read through this thread!
Does not believing PG propaganda equate to poor reading comprehension? If so I for one am proud to have poor reading comprehension.
You are correct ll:01 " I can't tell you how often to cut your grass or where to put a barn, or to cut down a rotted tree in your yard and by that same standard you cannot dictate policy on my property". We can't tell each other but that is exactly what our elected officials do every day. They tell everyone how tall grass can be, where to build their barn, etc. They will soon tell you where you cannot build your windmills.
The only thing that you have to convince a politician of is that you have the votes to reelect them. Do you really think the commissioners care about the studies. Do you really think the commissioners have actually read them. Congress doesn't even read the bills that they vote on so why would county commissioners waste time of reading boring studies. That's just the way it is but that is beyond PG's comprehension.
@12:32 And just who is going to vote for a commissioner who votes against a 200 million dollar investment that brings in almost 3 million a year in tax revenue and then passes a huge tax increase?
12:32 Yes you can hope they disregard all science and rule based on your opinions. However they are duty bound to not interfere in one persons rights unless it is proven that there is an infringement on another's rights. Also after SFS has trashed each of their names, accused them of cooruption and even dragged their families into it I am somewhat skeptical they will disregard all science to follow the opinions of SFS and in the process drive out nearly 3 million in annual county revenues, royally tick off a large portion of the county, and ensure no other business takes a chance on the county.
12:32 So you finally admit it. You have no factual base to stand on and SFS is really just trying to use the commissioners office as their own personal HOA.
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