Dr. Randy George of Marion Station presented the following remarks Feb. 11 to the County Ethics Commission as it begins to review financial disclosure forms submitted by the County Commissioners.
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“I’m have been very troubled by what’s going on with regards to this wind ordinance. The underlying reason, I think, why you’re here today is that wind ordinance.
“The drafting of an ordinance was commissioned by the County Commissioners to the Planning and Zoning Commission, and I think this whole discussion centers around the prestige of office, around the use of that. And that’s the underlying theme that I hear through it all.
“You are at some disadvantage, because you were not, like many of us, sitting through these long Planning and Zoning Commission meetings. Maybe that’s an advantage. But we do have, and the county does have audio/visual records of every bit of it, it’s out there.
“When Pioneer Green, we all know who that is, came into the county, it had very clear requirements. It was never vague about those requirements for what it had to have in order to be here. It needed to plant a series of turbines in an agricultural-residential area, because we are closely tied geographically to each other that didn’t leave a lot of area. People live quite close to each other even though it’s an agricultural region.
“Pioneer Green wanted to place these turbines 700 feet away from people. They finally conceded that it would be a 1,000 feet, otherwise they would have to walk. The height had to be a certain height, and if it were to be restricted, they would have to walk. If the sound was allowed to be too loud, they would have to walk, they required it to be in the range of airports and train sound levels permitted by the state of Maryland, otherwise they would not stay.
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1,183 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 1001 – 1183 of 1183This issue has been a passionate one because no one that is not being compensated wants to lose property values and their quality of life.
How much are they paying you to forego your safety, wildlife, property values, and peace and quiet. For the majority, these things are not for sale.
8:38 Where is the wind propaganda? The proponents have listed many sources and the only one funded by the wind industry is the economic analysis for the Great Bay Wind project. Meanwhile while the proponents have made it a point to offer sources for every argument the opponents cite....well they mostly just cite themselves.
@8:49 Somerset is poor, that is not debatable. As for dumb, scroll up and read all the comments from SFS posters expressing outrage that Obama had made himself Commander and Chief or the comment about Civil War families driving out Wall Mart. Enough Said!
Well he told the Crisfield and the developer that wanted to build 2 or 3 windmills near Woodson school that he and the board were not interested at all. The developer was even promising free electric for the school I believe. The school board just wasn't interested. This just occurred last year, I'm surprised you don't know about it. I don't need a study, just go read last years county times.
Can't you get off that election, you know very well that SFS had one write in candidate at the last minute. How on earth would anyone expect a last minute write in to win. They also supported a sheriff that was not even from this county and he lost, be deal, you really need some new arguments, your same old ones are getting boring.
Remember Johnnie Walker, he is the Private Investigator for Pioneer Green and was the first representative here from Pioneer Green. I guess he thought he struck pay dirt when he met with our greedy land hoarders and unscrupulous commissioners who sold out the rest of us for pennies.
8:49 SFS Cheerleader, I agree with you that more should be done to promote tourism. However I am doubtful that the county could ever attract enough tourist to generate the type of revenues power generation can. Even if it could, being in support of one business does not preclude being in support of another business. The county should not turn down 2.9 million now in hopes that they can develop a tourist market to fill that void.
You describe the democratic paryt 8:49. They, like Somerset always needs an underclass so they can make promises to make things better. If they would just leave people alone and reduce taxes Somerset would be just fine. I think even PG now realizes that Somerset is neither poor nor dumb. Maybe they should go to West Virginia, I hear they are poor and dumb.
I'm the one who just posted at 8:49, regarding tourism. I just looked at the Somerset county budget. The county budget for "economic development expenses" is $175,000. Does this include Danny Thompson's salary? Or is this just his expense account? There is no way to tell from the on-line county budget. Sounds like something else the ethics commission needs to investigate.
@8:51 I really do hope you can get some help with reading comprehension. Go back and read the post 31 of 49 wind farms had no complaints or only 1 in 272 people had any kind of complaint. Do you think the poultry industry could do that well? I doubt Cracker Barrel could do that well!
It's not about support 8:54, the superintendent turned down windmills for Woodson school. The guy that wanted to build was a lot like PG, he was making all kinds of promises but the didn't believe him just like a lot of folks do not believe you.
8:51 Let me break down that information for you. Out of 49 studied wind farms, 63.3% have never received a complaint. Out of the remaining 26.7% of wind farms only .4% of people complained. 67.5% of that .4% had been targeted by fringe groups like SFS.
Pioneer Green has surrounded Somerset Intermediate School with industrial wind turbines. The school board knows there will be health consequences. Phil Johnson is hell bent on installing industrial wind on his land adjacent to Woodson. In the end, he will be sued along with the wind facility because this poses risks to the health and safety of students. Phil Johnson retired from GE, a company that has received political favor from the Obama administration. Please call James Mathias and our county commissioners because they are pretending wind is good for us. Mathias (410) 841-3645 CC(410) 651-0320. If we don't speak up, they will deny their is opposition.
8:32 tax credits have expired for now but they can and probably will come back or some other government subsidy will come out of the Obama administration and you know it. You really never tell a complete lie but you never tell the full truth either. I still think you should get a job with the Obama administration, you would fit right in.
8:55 Numerous studies posted show that turbines are safe and have no effect on health or property values. If you dispute this then please provide the sources you used to arrive at that conclusion. I think that all the scientific sources cited are far more credible than your word.
Somerset is rich in natural resources not money. That is what makes us unique and attracts visitors to our county. Giving our resources up for money is not an option. The county commissioners and zoning commissioners need to know this.
8:54, check out the SFS Facebook page. There is an email from Dr. Gaddis (Sept. 28, 2014) stating that the board of Ed does not endorse any project except those which DIRECTLY impact our students. If you'd like further confirmation, please contact Dr. Gaddis directly.
@ 8:49 I'm all for tourism, however tourism and wind energy can certainly work together. As far as Natural Beauty no place can compare to the North Shore of Oahu and it is loaded with turbines. I would love to see the tourism dollars they get. Also that area is known for bird watching and the turbines have not hurt that either. You need to get out and travel a bit, turbines are in many upscale areas that depend heavily on tourism. Locally just look at Lewes.
Our county commissioners and zoning commissioners need to understand our natural resources are not for sale.
9:07 That less than two weeks after USA Today ranked Somerset as one of the poorest counties in the nation you would argue that Somerset isn't poor doesn't speak well of our average IQ.
@9:00 PM Go back and read the County Times again. That was not Great Bay! What were you all saying about not being DUMB?
9:08, you are the one that just doesn't understand. All the garbage you post really means nothing. 31 of 49 wind farms had no complaints, so what, there a numerous reasons why that could be. 1 in 272 people had complaint, so what they were not in Somerset county. You just throw this stuff out there but it is meaningless for the most part.
Thompson probably spent a bunch of that money taking the commissioners to NY to look at windmills. Somebody had to pay for it. They don't want you to know by looking at the budget, is anyone surprised at that. It could be very clear but so much for transparency.
9:03, are you kidding? We have enormous tourism potential here. It's just that our economic director hasn't done anything to promote it. Again. this is from business owners who came to our county with promises of great revenue potential.
@9:07 Actually West Virginia already has 583MW of wind energy installed. You guys do seem to have trouble gathering your facts!
To the individual that thinks Somerset is in great economic shape, by the previous census data the Somerset median house value is $153,600 and the national median house value is $212,300. The Somerset median household income is $38,447, the national median household income is $53,046. Maryland's median house value is $292,700 and Maryland's median household income is $73,538.
Wow, upon further review of the county budget, there are $176,005.68 in "tourism salaries" and $84,801 in "tourism expenses." Who is collecting this salary and can someone explain what the 84k was spent on? Again, sounds like more investigation is needed.
@9:02 Remind me how many votes did that SFS candidate get? You claim you have a strong majority in the county. The SFS candidate should have at least got the SFS members vote. The Sheriff candidate was a very well known and well funded Republican in a Republican year. He was the ONLY Republican to lose BIG! Personally I think he would have won if not for SFS!
You know better 9:42, you make statements that you know are untrue and then accuse SFS of lying. Howard was a Somerset county resident, it didn't matter what party he was he was going to win. His opponent wasn't from here and just wasn't as well known. Do you really not understand Somerset county politics?
9:07, smacks of fraud, looks like a state legislative audit is in order!
9:17 I don't have a crystal ball, if you know something about the tax credits coming back then good for you. I never said they wouldn't come back, not sure where you got that from. However as the tax credits are not in place now, and there is no indication if or when they might be reinstated, it should be pointed out that projects only qualify for tax credits available when the project begins construction (there is some grace period in the event tax credits expire). So if the project is built with no tax credit system in place it will receive no tax credits. I guess you forgot to mention that in your zeal to ensure the full truth was being told.
According to PG the county doesn't have any money 9:42. It looks to me like they have plenty to throw away. The more they get the more they spend. If they want to raise taxes this year I think they should cut all unnecessary expenses first. What has the EDC ever done for Somerset to justify that kind of money? Bringing in PG has actually cost the county a lot of money and is going to cost them a lot more if they don't soon kill this worthless project.
Regarding the Somerset County schools endorsement...more Pioneer Green spin. The current administration DOES NOT endorse the project. Great Bay wants to keep pretending that the school board does endorse the project.
9:27 I am assuming that you just joined the conversation. Go back through the thread and look at how many times (with no sources listed) SFS has claimed that most people hate turbines and turbines cause widespread health problems. This does not mesh with 31 out of 49 wind farms never receiving a single complaint and only 1 out of 272 people at the remaining wind farms having a complaint.
9:29 I would personally be appalled if the commissioners didn't go visit a wind farm. Shouldn't the county pay for this visit?
It's all relative 9:36. We are probably living better than the folks across the bridge. Who wants to pay tax on a $200,000 house when you can get the same house here for 1/2 the price. Why do you think all the retirees move here.
I can live better here on 38K then the folks can live in Montgomery on 78K. People move here just to get away from those high rent areas.
That is my point 9:30. What is wrong with my facts. West Virginia is dumb and poor, that is why they have all the windmills that no one else wants but they were to stupid to stop them.
9:25 no one said it was great bay, it was a developer from Crisfield, the same guy that built the condos.
9:25 there is not even a post at 9PM so what are you smoking tonight?
Dr Gaddis has it right and the prior superintendent had it wrong like she had a lot of other things wrong. Let me guess, she was a Obama supporter. She supported PG, wow, I'm surprised.
What qualification did the EDC guy have anyway? He should be replaced with a professional. That is a quarter million dollars spent every year and for what? If the commissioners want to raise taxes this year this should be brought to their attention. Cut the waste, fraud, and abuse. I can only imagine how much they could waste if they got their hands on even more money.
Let me go out on a limb, 1100 by tomorrow. PG will stay on here until they are run out of town with their tails between their legs.
I guess because we are poor and our median home values are lower than the nation's average, it is okay for the wind turbines to reduce our property values by another 10- 50%. Sorry Candy Anderson, Mark Bozman, Scott Tawes, and Ashley Boston, I am not willing to forego what I have worked so hard for so you can collect royalty payments.
The county commissioners good ole boy system is unraveling. Could marrying your cousin to keep power in the family be taboo?
If I my brother marries a Simpkins and my son marries a Simpkins, how much power do I get?
Hint: A lot!!!!
If Scott Tawes gets to purchase real estate for 20 cents on the dollar, how long does it take for him to run Somerset County?
If Scott Tawes chooses you as a partner in real estate, how long before you through your neighbor under the bus?
Whose property rights matter, an ordinary homeowner, or the large land hoarders in Somerset?
Does Charles Otto represent his entire district, or the 50 land owners who have wind leases?
If the County Commissioners don't acknowledge negative wind impacts, are they Real?
Look Out, Pioneer Green has purchased a $ 2.2 million plot of land from Michael Hall. I thought he cared about our county... guess I was wrong.
Looks like Kevin Anderson's parents could be victims of his unscrupulous actions.
Scott Tawes has screwed his wife's sister and his son's in-laws. If Pioneer gets their way, his namesake will be inundated with infrasound and shadow flicker because Dockside drive is in the footprint.
Dividing the county is the way wind developers get what they want. This M.O. is why they come in and form these backroom deals and then a few years later, the people who live in the footprint find out what is being planned and are opposed. In the meantime, our government officials have been lobbied to support this garbage and VIOLA! Here we are. Even Commissioner Fisher said, "This is the worst thing that has come to Somerset Co. since he has been involved in politics for more than two decades."
$160,000 in tourism expenses should be showing results. Somerset is not receiving what it is paying for. A full review is in order to see where these monies could be better spent.
Anyone interested in seeing just what SFS is all about read 10:48. Read back through all 1050 comments and try to find any personal attacks like the filth on 10:48 from the supporters. You have two sides here one has cited references to the point of being criticized for citing references. The other side has cited uninformed opinion and posted personal attacks with nothing to back them up but innuendo. I would always encourage people concerned about an issue to do their own research but I would especially encourage people to look at the filth SFS puts out and think about the trust you should give these people.
@9:55 You are the one being deceptive. Taylor was very well known and liked and had the endorsement of many popular names in the county including a very popular former state senator who was involved with his campaign. Taylor's wife runs a popular catering business. Despite their mistake of becoming involved with SFS I think they are good people and he would have made an excellent sheriff. However he used very poor judgement becoming involved with a fringe group like SFS. Just looking at the landowners, there's over 200 people supporting GB, numerous other people have expressed support for GB. Now look at SFS, they have 165 friends on facebook ( GB has over 1000) they spent by my estimate well over 10 Grand promoting a propaganda forum and got 150 people to attend. And how many of those 150 were looking for free food? And these people feel qualified to give investment advice to Adam Cohen. LOL!
10:12 You continue to claim that "no one" wants wind turbines. But as several polls show the majority of people do feel positive about wind turbines. Navigant Research did a poll that found wind was viewed favorably by 72% of people. USA Today found 73% of people supported continuing the PTC. A University of Texas poll found that 89% of Americans wanted the federal government to focus on further developing renewable energy. Kansas is a huge state for wind energy and a poll there found 91% of Kansas voters support wind power. A March 2013 Gallup poll found that 71% of Americans supported wind energy production, 76% of Americans supported solar, 37% supported nuclear and 46% supported fossil fuels. A poll in Minnesota showed 84% supported increasing wind development. An Ohio statewide survey gave participants the choice of choosing a primary and secondary pick of preferred energy 25% chose wind as the first pick and 47% as the second, 31% chose solar as their first pick and 54% as the second, 16% chose coal as their first pick and 25% as the second, 10% chose nuclear as their first pick and 19% as the second.
@ 10:31 Over 20 respected property values studies have been cited on this thread showing wind turbines have no effect on property values. Not one study has been cited on this thread showing a negative effect. Are you just stating a uninformed opinion or are you deliberately lying?
Research is crucial. All we have to do is look at other communities who have gone before us such as Falmouth, MA, Orangeville, NY, Octillo, CA, Brown County WI, Fondulac Co. WI. The list is exhausting but these will get you started.
SFS claims no one wants wind but it is the fastest growing source of electricity. http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2015/03/09/heres-how-much-faster-wind-and-solar-are-growing-than-fossil-fuels/?tid=sm_fb
@10:54 Who is dividing the County? Who is making personal attacks. Who is spreading lies to scare people? Who is telling people their greedy neighbors are selling them out? Who is telling people turbine noise will ruin their lives when turbines make far less noise than the poultry houses in the area? Who is telling people the turbines will come crashing down on them when the turbines are engineered to sustain cat. 5 hurricanes?
These people need an authoritative voice of reason giving the orders.The higher the volume the more confused the masses.They need to be led instead of being asked for their opinions.These aren't just comments,they are extensive narratives that suggest a total lack of direction.In the future,plans that have zero chance of coming to fruition need to be held a secret until the resources to complete the same become available,and the good sense to complete those plans becomes available.This is just a huge cluster.
Your "respected" studies have been debunked. Property values plummet in areas were wind turbines are installed.
8:19 According to you property values plummet. According to numerous peer reviewed studies property values have no effect. Anyone reading can decide for themselves if they want to believe an anonymous post or peer reviewed published studies.
Let's look at Pioneer Green's spin propaganda. There webpage, that they love to reference, has an endorsement from the long-gone superintendent. So they are pretending to have an endorsement that they don't have. They are called out here on it. So what do they do? First imply that the lack of endorsement is not true. When they are finally forced to admit it, 8:44, they immediately launch a deflection to talk about how dishonest SFS is.
You can read back through the comments to see another strategy. PG claims that noone from the opposition provided any evidence to support there claims. Someone posted a bunch of published studies showing wind turbines are harmful. So PG claims those publications are worthless because they are just surveys. Then PG references surveys to support there claims. Then they continue to say that no evidence from the opposition was ever offered. Even if they didn't like the studies, they can't claim no evidence was provided because they actually commented on them.
I have to hand it to Pioneer Green, they are masters of propaganda. Just a little careful reading shows just how thin they are though.
I agree research is crucial. Let me refer you to the literature review “Wind Turbine Health Impact Study: Report of Independent Expert Panel,” Ellenbogen et al (2012), Massachusetts Department of Environmental Protection, Massachusetts Department of Public Health. Also check out the turbine study on the Health Canada website. They did the usual sound test and questionnaires but also measured blood pressure, pulse and stress hormones. While the questionnaires did find annoyance no evidence of elevated stress was found in the blood pressure, pulse or stress hormones.
8:19 You claim that posted peer reviewed sources are false. Could you provide a list a sources to refute them?
7:23 You should also look at a study recently done in Australia just released by Simon Chapman, the Professor of Public Health at the University of Sydney. It studied 49 wind farms. Out of these 49 wind farms 31 had never received a complaint from 1993 to 2012. Of the remaining wind farms less than 1% of people voiced a complaint.
8:49 No one claimed the current superintendent endorsed the project. Also no one claimed the research cited by one person was worthless. It was claimed that the opposition probably did not read through them as one of the sources cited by SFS indicated that less than 3% of people would be sensitive to low frequency noise and another study stated that one of the benefits of wind energy was decreased energy prices, neither of which have been stances held by the opposition. You again twist the truth when you said the proponents have claimed polls and surveys were not accurate. What was actually indicated is that surveys are not an accurate measurement of health. The Health Canada study relied on biological factors such as stress hormones, blood pressure and pulse to look for indicators that the body was under prolonged stress. The studies you reference from SFS relied on a questionnaire to try to determine if the body was under stress. I think it is obvious that a questionnaire is not an accurate way of measuring stress but since there seems to be some confusion let me offer you a chance to clear it up somewhat. Are you of the opinion that a questionnaire is as good an indicator of stress as pulse rate, blood pressure and stress hormones?
On the subject of spin one of the opposition posted that there should be no turbines because golden eagles frequent the area. While it is true that golden eagles are much more susceptible to turbine strikes there is no sustaining golden eagle population in Somerset. The SFS member declined to answer if they believed a breeding population of golden eagles existed in Somerset County. The SFS facebook paged posted a link a while back with the quote "According to Ebird data Golden Eagles do exists in Maryland." Apparently they didn't actually look at the Ebird data or maybe they didnt think anyone would actually check the ebird data (would they actually count on having blind followers?) because according to ebird there has been two golden eagles spotted in Somerset County in the past decade. Does anyone actually want to argue that a member of a species classified as "least concern" showing up +/- twice every decade is something to hold a 200 million dollar project up over?
9:23, noone claimed the current super indent supported the project? If you look at the March 9th 8:54 post, it is implied that he does. So while none made the outright claim, the implication is there. This is more spin, remember I did compliment you because your really good at the spin.
I have posted over 20 well done property values studies but still I see some posters still try and spread the lie that turbines hurt property values so I will repost the best 4. I will be happy to post more but these are the best and will satisfy anybody looking for truth on the matter. Let me point out the Mass. study also looks at frequency of home sales, this is important because anti wind groups try to say the studies are slanted because they say homes don't sell near turbines this study proves that is not true. Atkinson-Palombo, C.; Hoen, B. (2014). Relationship between Wind Turbines and Residential Property Values in Massachusetts. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory.
This study provides siting process stakeholders with additional information from which to work. The report builds on Berkeley Lab’s previous studies published in 2009 and 2013 by amassing a much larger dataset of home sales near wind facilities sited in urban environments than had previously been collected.
Hinman, J.L. (2010). Wind Farm Proximity and Property Values: A Pooled Hedonic Regression Analysis of Property Values in Central Illinois. Illinois State University.
The study examined whether proximity to the 240-turbine Twin Groves Wind Farm (Phases I and II) in Illinois impacted nearby residential property values and whether any impact on nearby property values changes over the different stages of wind farm development. This study used 3,851 residential property transactions.
Hoen, B.; Brown, J.P.; Jackson, T.; Wiser, R.; Thayer, M.; Cappers, P. (2013). A Spatial Hedonic Analysis of the Effects of Wind Energy Facilities on Surrounding Property Values in the United States. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory.
This report builds on a 2009 study that also investigated impacts on home values near wind facilities. The researchers analyzed more than 50,000 home sales near 67 wind facilities in 27 counties across nine states and did not find any statistically identifiable impacts of wind facilities to nearby home property values.
Hoen, B.; Wiser, R.H.; Cappers, P.; Thayer, M.; Sethi, G. (2009). The Impact of Wind Power Projects on Residential Property Values in the United States: A Multi-Site Hedonic Analysis. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory.
The researchers collected data on almost 7,500 sales of single family homes within 10 miles of 24 wind facilities in nine states. Also let me point out 3 of these studies are done by the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory. This is one of the most respected research facilities in the world.
People are still bringing up the bird issue. Lets look at the subject this way. Do you use electricity? Do you plan to continue to use electricity? Do you understand electricity has to be generated? Do you understand that coal is the largest means of electrical generation in this country? Do you understand coal generation of electricity kills far more birds (and people) than wind generation? This is any way you want to look at it, total, by MW whatever. Whatever electricity we use that does not come from wind or solar will probably come from coal. Coal also releases huge amounts of carcinogens and heavy metals into our atmosphere. Also if anyone has seen a strip mine you know how devastating the use of coal is to many of the most scenic areas of our country.
9:54 Should I believe your fallacious studies or my own lying eyes?
@8:49 You mention the studies submitted by SFS that they obviously had not read. Let me again point out that most of these studies did NOT even reference wind turbines but were simply studies on low frequency sound. These studies could be referencing ocean waves, poultry house fans, grain bin fans, highway traffic or farm equipment as all produce large amounts of low frequency sound. Actually far higher levels of low frequency sound than turbines. As far as the studies that did reference turbines they are reviewed in several literature reviews that have been cited. All of these studies find no credible evidence of health problems from turbines. Let me cite the most popular one again. http://greatbaywind.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Wind-Turbine-Health-Impact-Study-Massachusetts.pdf
@9:52 This is the post you cite. "@8:04 What evidence do you have that the current Superintendent does not support the project? SFS has a long history of overestimating its support, just look at the last election." You claim that is an implication that the current superintendent supports wind energy? And you claim supporters of GB are using spin? Because someone does not blindly take your word on something and asks you what evidence you have for one of your claims that is implying the opposite is true? Get over yourself you have made one false statement after another on this thread and elsewhere and that has been proven with cited evidence. I wouldn't trust anyone associated with SFS for the time of day!
@ 10:23 What a well thought out intellectual response. At least by SFS standards. Of course you will believe what you want because your concern has nothing to do with property values but the jealousy that you have allowed to take over your life. Do yourself and everyone else a huge favor and get some help!
10:23, I just went back and looked at the list of studies someone posted. You say "most of these studies did NOT even reference wind turbines but were simply studies on low frequency sound" Actually I counted 19 of the 31 studies that say right in the title that they are about wind turbines. I'm not a math whiz, but by my accounts that equals 61% of the studies. How do you figure that 39% of the studies that don't mention wind turbines is most of them?
PG thinks that they have so much support in Somerset yet they are totally opposed to a referendum vote. If they thought for one second that they would win they would be all for the vote. They know they would lose so they always give the same old answer about property rights. PG could care less about property rights if they could get permission to build. I find PG very unprofessional and untrustworthy. I believe they would do anything in order to get permission to build.
It's because you can't trust anything PG says 1:09
1:50 If you were really a supporter of property rights then you would be against a referendum. The proponents have always been against a referendum even as your estimates of supporters shrink so your theory of "if they thought they could win they would be all for a vote" holds no water. It is a shame that property rights and business rights mean so little to you. Furthermore putting a business that has invested 4 million in coming to the county to referendum would be the worst thing Somerset could ever do. Having major businesses see that after investing millions they could be put to a referendum would ensure no business would ever come to Somerset. Besides what would it accomplish? After Pioneer won SFS would just find a way to challenge it. SFS has lost twice at the zoning board and now they file a b.s. ethics complaint to try to get it sent back for a third time.
1:52 That a group that has made so many unfounded accusations of corruption on here I won't even waste time counting them is going to talk about "trust" I find almost amusing. I would like to think that most of the county is comprised of honest individuals that will not go along with your empty rhetoric, your false accusations and laughable attempts at intimidation.
Here's the deflection again @ 2:34.
The chart speaks for itself.
@1:09 Your right. Been a few days since I read them but your count is right. My point that the ones dealing with turbines are pretty much covered in the Mass. study is accurate. Some of the authors had multiple studies and they might have missed a few but I think it's safe to say the panel did not miss any pertinent information. The Mass. panel has very impressive credentials and I'm very comfortable that they have a firm grasp on all the science out there.
2:28, If you want to talk about business sense PG must have the worst business managers in the country. No other business in the USA would spend 4 Million dollars before they knew for sure that they had permission to do whatever they wanted to do. The only possible reason you would do that is if you had been promised permission by those you thought you could trust in county leadership positions. That in it'self is part of the problem. You learned the hard way but like Regan said "trust but verify".
B.S. ethics complaint 2:28? That just shows how unethical you are. The chart speaks for it's self.
The reason SFS wants a referendum is not because they think they could win it but to delay. After what they spent advertising their propaganda forum they got 150 people does anyone really think they could win a referendum? Especially if GB actually fought it. GB has pretty much completely ignored SFS with its propaganda mailings and ridiculous photo shopped pictures. If GB put out some pictures that were properly done to scale and made a real effort to educate people on the truth about the sound levels they would get and the amount of time they would actually experience flicker the little support SFS does have would dwindle.Plus the studies on property values would be discussed in the media exposing how SFS has lied. Then when the commissioners made public how much the tax increase would be with turbines vs without it would be the end of SFS. Keep in mind a referendum would be county wide, the northern end would be choosing between turbines they couldn't even see and a huge tax increase. Crisfield will already have a small turbine so they will not be concerned about seeing some more on their way to Salisbury and again will be choosing between turbines are a huge tax increase. The little support SFS has is because they are comparing turbines to nothing, when you compare them to a huge tax increase plus correct all the lies SFS has told, people would quickly get over their fear and jealousy. While I agree with 2:28 constitutional rights should not be put to referendum I do think it would be the end of SFS!
You are correct 3:08. The PG guy is a master at deflection. When he can't answer a straight question truthfully he totally changes the premise of the question.
The worst thing Somerset could ever do 2:28 is invite another windmill company into the county.
You ask what a referendum would accomplish 2:28. It would show that Somerset county residents do not want windmills and you could pack up and go home. That would accomplish a lot in my opinion.
Sounds like you are finally admitting that SFS is determined to stop this project no matter how much you try to convince people that windmills are the savior of Somerset county. You are just not believable 2:28. If only you had been a bit more humble over the last several years you may have made a few more friends, being so arrogant you made many enemies. Maybe we just don't like being told what is good for us by a bunch of city slickers that think we are so poor and so dumb we will accept whatever you have to offer.
I'd still like to know how to legally get out of a contract,lease, any help out there?
4:52 If the ethics complaint is legitimate than why is your leader not included? How can you claim the ethical high ground when you are so hypocritical when it comes to ethics? Further you seriously think in a small town that if someones spouse does business with someone that has a lease that is an ethics violation?
4:56 On that topic there have been several questions the opposition has not answered, perhaps you would care to instead of "deflecting." How did your claimed petition numbers go from 1000 in September to 200-400 in January? SFS has claimed there are golden eagles at risk. Does SFS contend there is a breeding population of Golden Eagles in Somerset? There have been two golden eagles recorded in Somerset in the last decade. Does SFS contend that +/- 2 golden eagles in Somerset per year warrant killing a 200 million dollar project? One of the sources SFS cited claims that wind turbines lower energy prices. Does SFS agree then that there are no negative effects to energy prices from wind turbines or are they not reading what they cite? Another of the sources SFS lists states that only 2.5% of people are sensitive to low frequency noise. Does SFS contend that because of this 2.5% wind turbines should not be allowed in a agricultural area where numerous other sources of low frequency noise exists? If they believe this of the 2.5% that are sensitive to low frequency noise warrant scrapping a 200 million dollar project then what considerations does SFS think should be made for the 8% of Americans with asthma that would suffer from poultry dust? These are just a few questions that have been posed of you SFS "cheerleaders" as you now suddenly take exception to "deflection" perhaps the proponents can finally have some answers.
4:52 How unethical I am? You selectively file an ethics complaint against those you disagree with while leaving out someone with identical conflicts of interest that agrees with you and question someone else's ethics? You go on an anonymous blog an make numerous unsubstantiated accusations of corruption and then try to claim some sort of moral high ground?
5:00pm As I said before I doubt your 200 person fringe group would carry the county. Also I don't want to see Somerset be even more devoid of business in the future to prove it. Thirdly I value my property rights.
4:50 Answer me a question from your "vast" experience in developing multi-million dollar projects. To get your permits you have to give exact locations, GPS coordinates and property records. If you go to permitting before you get property access what do you file for your permit locations?
4:58 Yes it would just be horrible for a county ranked by USA Today as one of the poorest in the nation to have multiple multiple million dollar projects going on. Then Somerset might actually balance the budget.
5:08 I was born and raised in Somerset, hardly a "city slicker." I was actually fairly humble until I saw the full arrogance and ignorance of SFS displayed at a public meeting when they shouted at an elderly man who tried to make a statement. Even then I was still fairly quiet on the matter until at another meeting I saw one of your members going around bragging about your groups plans to sue everyone involved. Unlike what you imply there is no shame in being poor. Where there is shame is being too dumb to realize how poor you are and too arrogant to do anything about it. The county is broke, there is no disputing this. Furthermore the counties budget will rise as they are forced by the state to pick up pensions and revenues will decrease as the ag and fisheries industries are slowly suffocated by the state. I am not offering you anything, if you want something in this world it is up to you to achieve it. I stay out of your business and expect you to stay out of mine. But where you are wrong is in your idea that you will interfere with my property rights and the property rights of others with me staying silent. I also find it hilarious that you claim some sort of controlling interest on my property and others property and then call me arrogant when I object to your opinion that I somehow answer to you on what happens on my land.
5:08 I think everyone already knows SFS will do anything ethical, moral or otherwise (usually otherwise) to slow down or kill this project. It is sad that greed and jealousy go this far.
Laughable 4:54, You the PG spokesman stating that a referendum would be the end of SAF but you are not for it. If I were your boss you would be fired on the spot for that statement. You say you have spent 4 million dollars but you had rather loss it than go to a vote that you are so sure you would win. That just doesn't make any sense at all . You are not as smart as I used to think you were.
6:56 It may be hard for you to understand, but I have not spent anything and I am not on Pioneer's salary. As such I am far more concerned with the future of my home and a referendum would kill any hopes for future business and would also greatly infringe on property rights. Neither of these are items I wish to see. I am sorry if the basic concepts of property rights do not make sense to you. Maybe one day you will understand property rights and why some people take them seriously.
Everyone knows that congress will renew the PTC. PG keeps saying the PTC has expired which it has but they just keep forgetting to say that it is almost 100% certain that they will be renewed. Another half truth and in my book a half truth is the same as a lie.
PG has nothing else to offer so they just keep accusing plain ordinary folks of belonging to some organization that they don't belong to. PG is a poorly run company and I doubt if they will be able to build windmills anywhere else in the country after other areas read this blog.
5:53, you are wrong again. Somerset has balanced the budget for many many years, that is why they still have a surplus. Anything else you want to mislead us about?
@6:46 I don't think you could ever understand my point of view on this matter because we have entirely different values and ethics. Just as you see nothing wrong with making unsubstantiated claims of corruption or attacking someone's character with innuendo on an anonymous post you also see nothing wrong with demanding Constitutional Rights be put to referendum if it suited your desires. I have too great an appreciation for the price paid for these rights to casually discard them. It might help you to understand my opposition if you could look past the issue at hand and consider what a referendum could lead to. If one group is allowed to demand a referendum over constitutional rights every group would then have that right. For instance the group challenging poultry houses at Wildwood Drive. What possible business would be allowed to start without being challenged to a referendum. Or how about if you wanted to start a small business in your home, say tax preparation and a neighbor didn't like it. The neighbor could put your plans on hold pending a referendum. It could be used against people. For instance someone has a grudge against someone else so when they want to do something with their land it gets delayed with a referendum. Again I really doubt you are capable of understanding these points so think what you will but I don't think you are going to get a referendum.
7:00 It was just in the County Times a couple of months ago that the county was running on reserves. Who is being misleading?
6:56 As I have said I have no crystal ball. There has been no major effort to renew the PTC. In any case the PTC is currently expired. SFS has claimed that there is some back door approach that Pioneer could use to still get the PTC after it is expired. This is an outright lie and a link was posted to the requirements for getting the PTC that showed it was a lie. Yet in the face of this you come on and say that anyone stating that the PTC is expired is somehow a lie? It would seem to be if you were concerned with morality then you would be criticizing those who continue to falsely claim that a tax credit is guaranteed for new wind projects.
6:56 Your statements on how PG is run is your opinion. But I am fairly certain they have developed more million plus dollar project than you. I do wholeheartedly agree with you that anyone that reads this blog will definitely come away with a solid opinion. However I do not see many people siding with a group that for the most part refuses to back their claims up with sources and makes a continual stream of false accusations of corruption while hiding behind innuendo. Personally I hope all of our local elected officials have kept an eye on this to see what SFS falsely accuses them of.
@6:56 Can you even cite just one example of a statement that can be attributed to PG where they accuse plain ordinary folks of belonging to some organization that they don't belong to. What were you saying about not being DUMB?
Pioneer Green has purchased the plot of land in order to meet the capital expenditure for PTC/CASH Grant qualifiers. If wind/solar developers did not get big bucks from the Government, none of this would exist. Our electricity rates are going to rise because taxpayers and ratepayers pay the cost. The reason these projects do not make economic sense is they produce energy a fraction of the time and many times it is produced when the grid cannot accept it, so it is dumped. Even when wind/solar is producing, a backup source is ramping which lowers efficiency and increases costs.
8:03 Your talking nonsense. For one thing even if they had purchased the land at 3 million they still would not not have invested 5% of the 200 million project. I know your reading comprehension isn't too good so let me also do that math for you. 5% of 200 million is 10 million. Even if they had bought the property you describe at 3 million they would still be at least 3 million short of qualifying under the safe harbor clause for the PTC. Also I just checked again on Maryland's Real Property Search (SDAT), Pioneer has not bought the property as of 3/11, despite your repeated claims that they had bought it weeks ago at 2.2 million. Furthermore even if they somehow spent another 6 million to qualify under the safe harbor clause they would have to be in construction by December 2015 to qualify for the now expired PTC. The MIT-LL report will not be finished until December 2015 so it would be impossible to start construction until well after that as once that report is out they would still have to finish permitting. I am not sure if these are direct lies, attempts to be misleading or complete ignorance but it is pretty easy to research and refute this stuff. You also tell a direct lie when you indicate that under the PTC the developers got "big bucks." This project is completely privately funded and even the expired tax credits you reference do not go to the developers. The PTC or production tax credit was a tax credit on PRODUCTION and went to the operator not the developer. There is no cash grant for utility scale wind or solar. There is an investment tax credit available for solar but it is not a cash grant. Several references have been posted that refute this notion you have that in economics increased supply equals higher price. Even one of SFS's listed sources claims electricity prices decrease due to wind development.
I just checked out Joe's new post. PG has some more creative writing to do. It seems that yet another expert exposes the truth about the windmill controversy.
By the way 8:05, yes I can site where you claim ordinary folks are a member of some organization. I am that ordinary folk that doesn't belong to any organization and you have insinuated that I do many many times. You can either call me a lier, which I'm not or I will accept your appology.
Pioneer Green has an agreement to spend $7 million on transmission, bringing capital expenditures to $10 million. Which is 5% of project costs thus allowing them to harvest the lucrative credits that are being paid by hard working Americans. It is surprising Somerset Commissioners do not have details of the project when Pioneer is so confident to stake $10 million on it.
Hey PG cheerleader, How come you are insulting Somerset residents every time you attempt to put your spin on things? Another name for your tactic is bullying.
10:33 Are you apologizing for stating that I am PG?
10:53 They have agreements to spend a lot IF the project gets constructed. To qualify under the safe harbor clause they must have SPENT the money. An agreement to spend IF the project is constructed is not the same as actually SPENDING the money. It was a nice twist for you but still fairly obvious. BTW you criticize tax credits. You do know that every form of energy right now (except new wind projects) gets tax credits right?
10:55 Where is the spin? Where is the insult? I believe the insult is insulting someones intelligence to the point you try to convince them that planning to possibly spend and having spent are the exact same thing under tax law. Your leader actually gets paid to do taxes with that type of philosophy? Lord help you if the IRS ever audits you and looks at your tax deductions.
10:55 Bullying? Insults? Coming from the group that just filed ethics complaints against any official involved that didn't agree with them and retreats to an anonymous blog to make numerous false accusations of corruption?
10:33 The question was can you name a time when Pioneer accused anyone of belonging to any organization that they did not. You kind of dodged that question so it still stands. When has Pioneer ever accused anyone of being part of any organization that they were not? Also I am not Pioneer so I am still waiting on your apology.
10:55 SFS Cheerleader, speaking of spin I noticed that yesterday on your Facebook you put up an article about an eagle death. It was about a golden eagle. You know that species that there has been two confirmed sightings of in Somerset in the last decade? You never answered the question, Does SFS believe there is a population of Golden Eagles at risk from the Great Bay Wind Project?
10:33 I have been referred to as PG, Pioneer, PG spokesperson and Kevin. Where are my apologies?
Please SFS post your explanation on PG signing a purchase option on property on your website and facebook page. Just as Paul told you the turbines would not be over the FAA application height of 599' and you lied (and continue to lie) about it I will as a courtesy tell you that you don't have a clue. But please think what you will, all I ask is you own it loudly and proudly. It would be great if when you post on your webpage if you would sign it and stand by it. Thanks SFS.
You don't get any 12:49 because you are exactly that Kevin from PG who is the PG spokesman. Got it?
8:10 Actually no. My name is not Kevin. I am not PG and therefore am not their spokesperson. Got it? I think I stated that before.
I think the little voices she hears are telling her its Kevin and he's a PG spokesman. LOL!
8:32 In addition to not being able to get names right, the map on the SFS website is incorrect. If you plot out the points of possible turbine locations based on the permit sites on the FAA Obstruction Evaluation Website you get a much different picture. The actual area of wind development is much smaller than what SFS claims. I do not want to accuse them of outright lying but when so much of their propaganda is easily verified as wrong you have to wonder if SFS is grossly incompetent or grossly dishonest. Or both.
Despite your claims, the names are correct on the SFS map. A few of the leased plots have been sold but court records for easements are not updated making it impossible to record the name of new owners. Also on the Scott Tawes, Jimmy Nelson Jr, and Jimmy Nelson, III leases, character limitations did not allow for Jerry Boston's son-in-laws name, DOUG REYNOLDS to be included. The plots are accurate according to FAA Filings. If Pioneer Green is disputing these sites, then they should provide a turbine site map.
9:22 The map is not correct. SFS took the entire area of leases and basically implied that the entire area was for wind turbines. There are only 29 turbine cites and all in the Westover/Marion Area. The SFS map would indicate there are turbines going in north and west of rt 13. Anyone can go check the FAA permits and see this is incorrect. Why should Pioneer provide a site map when any idiot that knows how to Google "FAA Obstruction Evaluation," select the appropriate links on the left side of the screen and plot GPS points on Google Earth can make on of their own and see that SFS has drawn a map much, much larger then the actual wind farm would be?
9:22 The one mile perimeter line of the SFS map looks to expand almost to Princess Anne and stretches over to the North touching the Manokin and then on the Southern side continues to almost to Shelltown. All the turbines are in the Westover Marion area, the one mile line you guys drew in some cases is almost a 5 mile line. Is SFS not capable of drawing a one mile radius around 29 turbines or is the one mile line a completely misleading representation?
The map is not correct! At least one farm has the wrong owner labeled. This farm has been owned by the current owner since long before PG. Just typical SFS sloppiness! If I can easily Spot one I would bet there are more.
9:22 is correct. If PG wants to complain about the map and lease holders, then by all means, please provide a map showing the supposed "correct" turbine locations.
Also, since PG loves keep claiming that SFS is "dishonest" how about this. Paul Harris and Adam Cohen said publicly multiple times that if they were required to wait for the new MIT study to be completed at the end of 2015, it would kill their project. If you read back through the comments, the PG guys said they were now waiting for that study to be completed. If so, why hasn't it killed their project then?
By the way, please notice that I've sign my name to this. The PG guy keeps complaining that SFS members are attack people while hiding behind "anonymous" I haven't seen the PG sign his name to anything yet.
Again, let's look. PG claims to be forthright and honest. They won't publish any information regarding the location of there turbines, but then complain that when a group puts the information together from public record, they got it wrong. More deflection as usual.
Mr. Thompson and 10:00 with all due respect you are full of it! The proposed turbine sites are public record with the FAA and have been for quite some time. What does SFS expect GB to write your propaganda for you? Of course at least then it would be accurate! You people are a joke, you screw up your propaganda map and then instead of just owning it you cry GB didn't help you look up the public information! Besides SFS already has a map of the turbine locations and has put it on their website. That just didn't look scary enough for propaganda so they drew a circle around all leased properties! As far as anonymous I have no problem with people using it until you start making personal attacks against people's character especially using innuendo. Look what was said about Vicki Miller! You insinuated she stole money, claimed you had a DT reporter to back up your claims, You claimed she left her job at the school board suddenly and insinuated she had something to do with her lease being misfiled. As she works for local government if there were any truth to any of these claims they could be verified, so where's your public announcement? Making unsubstantiated claims like this show a lack of character, making them under anonymous shows your cowards!
BTW 6:18 is correct you have at least one farm on your propaganda map with the wrong owner listed. How can you blame that on GB? All you needed was a tax map I guess GB should have provided you with one.
I never said anything about Vicki Miller. I don't know her.
William Thompson at 11:22. Please scroll back through this thread. You will see numerous allegations of corruption involving elected officials, appointed officials, leaseholders and locals in the county all involving opposition members hiding behind anonymous. I have no problem with opinionated, fact based discussion on an anonymous blog. I have stated this several times and I believe the other proponents on here agree with that. I do however have a huge problem with people making unsubstantiated accusations while hiding behind "anonymous" and offering no proof of their claims. If you do not have a problem with this then frankly your ideas of ethics and integrity are vastly different than mine.
11:00 So True! SFS gets caught with incorrect information (again) and their rationale is that they shouldn't have had to go to public records and actually piece together the information themselves. Someone from Pioneer is supposed to drive up from Texas and hand the opposition a map already labeled. So it is really the fault of Pioneer that SFS is spreading more false information. What a joke!
Mr. Thompson your the one who brought up anonymous comments. It's obvious someone in the group (SFS) your affiliated with ( and we all know who) made those comments. SFS should either stand by them by name or renounce them by name. And that's just one person their have been numerous unsubstantiated claims of dishonesty and corruption.
@10:00AM You want to know what deflection is. Look at Mr. Thompson's comment! The discussion is about the SFS propaganda map being wrong and he's quoting Cohen and the MIT study. That's DEFLECTION! Of course you being a good little sheeple follow right along.
12:28 The comment made at 10am is more than a deflection it is blatantly dishonest. The writer tried to claim that Pioneer failed to publish the turbine locations. WRONG! It is public information. Someone else even told them how to find it with Google. Then to make it more hilarious they try to blame Pioneer for SFS not having the correct information. It does not get any funnier than this. This opponent, SFS or not, is seriously going to make the statement that it is Pioneer's fault that SFS does not have anyone that can use a tax map, look up the FAA Obstruction Evaluation, accurately plot points on a map and use a compass to draw a one mile border. If I was the opposition I would just admit that they were a little dishonest with the map in an attempt to try to stir the county up as this still looks a lot better than just admitting than there is no one in the group competent enough to look up parcels in a tax map, plot points from the coordinates given by the FAA and draw a one mile arc! I just wish we could talk them into making a public announcement blaming Pioneer for their inability to use public information to draw an accurate depiction.
The map is actually correct, PG is simply attempting to claim it isn't. So if they don't like the map, then produced there own.
12:56, actually no, if you read what 10am wrote, they said PG won't publish anything. They did not claim that no information is available Yes, the turbine locations are in the public record, but those are from public filings and that is where SFS got the information. Can you show us where PG has made a publicly available map or database showing the leaseholders? So I agree, if PG doesn't like what's been produced, then they should produce their own map. Otherwise, quit complaining about a group published from public records.
1:26 The map is quite obviously incorrect. PG isn't claiming anything, I am. I've looked at the turbine points listed on the FAA Obstruction Evaluation (which incidentally lists nothing about a 690ft turbine) and compared it to your chart with your supposed "one mile" line. For one there is at least one name wrong. Also the one mile radius is way off. Your one mile radius stretches almost to Princess Anne, then over to the Manokin, then down nearly to Crisfield, then almost to Shelltown. The only area getting turbines is the Westover/Marion area which is much more than a mile from the previously listed areas. In some areas your one mile line is close to 5 miles away from any turbine. I do not need Pioneer to give me a map, I can plot points, for that matter my 7yr old can plot the points and come up with a more accurate depiction than SFS's map. Don't you guys have an engineer in your group? Can't he show you how to use a rule and compass to plot points and draw a one mile represented arc?
1:26 You claim the map is correct? Then answer this for me. Your one mile radial mark near Shelltown goes through the coordinates 37 58' 32.43N by 75 37'41.89W. The nearest turbine points according to the FAA Obstruction Eval are the two at 38 03'27.8N by 75 40'51.35W and 38 03'18.5N by 75 41'2.4W. The distance from your one mile mark to the nearest turbine is 6.31 miles! How is your map "obviously correct" when the one mile arc is 5.31 miles away from the nearest turbine?
I am 3:07. Sorry for the typo, the final sentence should be "How is your map "obviously correct" when the one mile arc is 6.31 miles away from the nearest turbine?" Question still stands as to an "accurate map" has a one mile arc over 6 miles from the nearest point.
The one mile perimeter is from already leased land, where PG may put turbines in phase 2 and 3. This is clearly stated on the map for those who can read. Since the map was published PG has added at least one turbine that has been made public.
Hey SFS while your on the FAA webpage check out the heights listed for the turbines. Not one over 599'! You have the temerity to bitch that GB didn't give you locations when they gave you height several times and you just ignore them. Seems pretty hypocritical to me! Of course you also ignore the height limit in the proposed ordinance of 575' so your dishonest too.
@1:26 The map is NOT correct! You have at least one farm as having the wrong owner. It has been owned by the same farmer since long before GB came to Somerset. Compared to the long line of lies that have come from SFS this is nothing, actually probably just a honest mistake, however your insistence that it is accurate after being told it is not by several ways by several posts (and I believe different people)shows a character flaw. Not that we didn't already know that!
3:45 The captions on the map says specifically the one mile line is "from wind project" for those who can read. It doesn't say leased land. It says wind project. The wind project is very well documented as far as turbine sites on the FAA website for anyone that can read. As Pioneer has not announced any possible citing plans for a Phase 2 or any other phase but 1 you cannot argue that you were trying to include possible future phases. For one thing there is nothing to keep any future phases from being outside the Westover/Marion area. There has also been no official plans announced for any plan other than 1 to my knowledge. Also for those who can read please verify the number of permit requests on the FAA page. There are 29. The same number there has always been. If you can read you can find out pretty easily that Pioneer has not added any turbines.
@ 3:45 What turbine has been added? What evidence do you have of a phase 3?
Leased land is the wind project. I don't think PG leased land to grow turnips. One additional location has been given to the FAA. PG has documented plans for
3 phases with a total of 65 turbines. The phoney U of Baltimore study is based on 65 turbines.
4:26 Check the FAA website yourself! There are no additional locations! There are 29 turbines proposed. The same number it has been for months, years even. Leased land is not a wind project. The wind turbines are the wind project! If you had listened to anything the reps for PG had said they indicated they had leased a lot of land to see what was feasible for their project and then planned the actual project based on what they could lease. In the initial stages of planning they leased a greater amount of land as they said they originally were planning 65 smaller turbines. Later when they went into permitting they selected a bigger turbine and needed less land. You would know this if you had bothered to listen to what has been said. Rather than listen you draw false conclusions and then fault Pioneer when you are wrong. The map specifically says Phase One. The one mile radius is referenced as the one mile radius from the wind project. Either you overstated the boundaries of the wind project to try to make it seem much bigger or you completely blew the map. The Jacobs France Study was based on more turbines but they were smaller turbines, if you had read it you would know this. Pioneer since they started permitting has said phase one would be 29 turbines. They acknowledged a possible phase 2 but never cited it and never even started permitting it. They to my knowledge have never talked about a phase 3. As no plans were ever officially announced for a phase two it cannot even be speculated as to where it would be cited.
Hey PG guy, please comment on what a previous poster said, that having to wait on the new MiT study would kill the project. Now that PG is waiting on the new study, why hasn't that killed the project? So did Pioneer Green make a false claim?
6:40 Trying to change the subject are we? I have no idea how they are able to keep the project going while waiting on the DoD to issue permits. I am thrilled they have been able to. But if you want a exact answer on how they are able to keep the project alive with political pressure holding up the FAA permits why don't you email them and ask? While you are typing up that email could I get an explanation on the wrong name on at least one tract as well as how SFS thinks the one mile line being off by 6 miles is acceptable to SFS? Also could someone offer something on this mysterious new turbine that apparently the opposition knows about but the FAA permitting system does not?
PG said if they didn't get the sound levels they needed, their project would be killed. They said if they didn't get the heights they needed, their project would be killed. They said if they didn't get the project done when they needed, their project would be killed. The Navy wanted lower heights than PG said were economically feasible, and now PG is looking to install lower height turbines. PG didn't get the timeframe they wanted, but that they are still moving forward. So the company comes into our county and makes all these demands, saying that anything impeding their demands will kill the project. It hasn't happened. Makes it real hard to believe them. Not so forthright after all, eh?
9:40 Still trying to change the subject? How is PG trying to change the heights? All the FAA Obstruction Eval heights are 599. If they were going to chance the heights it would seem they would file it and get their project rolling. Since even the FAA doesn't know anything about lowering the heights below 599 I would assume SFS is incorrect on this also, just like the mysterious new turbine that the FAA knows nothing about. The sound they requested was the same sound limit that applies to every non-agricultural residence and business in Maryland. How is asking for the same rules as everyone being unreasonable? It makes it hard to take you seriously when you cannot get any of your information correct.
Committees in the Hawaii House and Senate both recommended bills that would result in Hawaii increasing its goal of 70% renewable energy by 2030, to 100% by 2040 http://cleantechnica.com/2015/03/13/100-renewable-energy-goal-looks-likely-hawaii/?utm_source=Wind+News&utm_campaign=7ddee3275b-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_79fed14422-7ddee3275b-332046725
A new report published by the US Department of Energy seeks to develop a new “Wind Vision,” which aims to document the contributions wind has made to date, and the continuing and growing contributions it can make to the country’s national energy portfolio. http://cleantechnica.com/2015/03/13/us-envisions-new-era-wind-power/?utm_source=Wind+News&utm_campaign=7ddee3275b-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_79fed14422-7ddee3275b-332046725
The US Energy Information Administration has released numbers which show that wind and natural gas will make up the majority of new 2015 capacity additions, amidst 20 GW of new utility-scale generating capacity.
The additions will be dominated by wind, which is expected to add 9.8 GW of utility-scale capacity, and natural gas, with 6.3 GW. Solar will add another 2.2 GW, which all-told will account for 91% of total additions for 2015.
Conversely, nearly 16 GW of generating capacity is expected to retire in 2015, of which 81%, or 12.8 GW, is coal-fired.
There is an FAA filing for a turbine that is under 480'. Earlier in the comments, the PG cheerleader claimed that wasn't part of the Great Bay project. So is another company planning to install that turbine. The PG guy also said he didn't know how they were keeping the project afloat while waiting on the MIT study. Sounds to me like 9:40 is correct.
If this administration gets its way, industrial wind will be littering every county in the US. The Great Bay Wind project will set a precedent if passed, that National Defense, massive bird kills, low production, and large population density no longer matter. Do your research and see what wind communities are dealing with.
Facts tell the truth. The Great Bay cheerleader is lying and does a great disservice by declaring wind propaganda as fact. Do your own research and you will uncover the truth.
8:03 I agree do the research. For the most part only one side on here is willing to cite sources. That in and of itself says a lot. Also what you are calling "Wind Propaganda" are sources from Universities, Scientific Journals, DOE publications and the US Energy Information Admin. It is funny but SFS has cited some stuff from USEI and DOE but now you call it "Wind Propaganda." I take it anything that doesn't agree with you is "Wind Propaganda" in your mind? Explains a lot about your viewpoint, such as how a single property value being lowered in Vermont is supposed to carry more weight than numerous real estate studies that show no loss in property value. I think you do everyone a great disservice by declaring that all research and data is wrong, but then you offer nothing to contradict it. Facts do tell the truth. The proponents have been very diligent to cite their sources so that anyone can look them up and see the facts. For the most part the opponents have cited themselves. Furthermore while we are talking about lying I never got any information about why your map was incorrect? Mistakes or Dishonesty? Also you were just claiming that Great Bay is adding turbines and lowering the heights. How come you are making this claim but the FAA Obstruction Eval knows nothing about it? As you cannot get a map right, the number of turbines right or the heights right do you expect to have any credibility on anything else?
7:13 Pioneer did discuss putting in one turbine under 500ft and said that would not be part of the Great Bay Wind project. They never said anything about lowering the height on the Great Bay Wind project. Since then they have said that the single turbine is not going to happen. You can check the FAA obstruction eval yourself and see that all 29 turbines are listed at 599. There is no extra turbine, and there are no turbines under 599ft. Do you even bother checking your information before you post it?
8:00 If the administration really was pushing this project they could order the DoD to sign off. Reality and your claims are not meshing there. Also if the project will pose a threat to National Defense after the MIT-LL study is complete the DoD will not sign off. So your claims once again do not check out. A huge amount of information from credible sources has been posted dismissing your wild claims of mass bird kills. Once again reality and your claims do not mesh. Furthermore this area is far from a "dense" population. Lewes is far more densely population and according to local polls only 1% disapprove of that wind project.
7:13 If you wish to claim 9:40 is correct then answer why 9:40 is claiming that Pioneer is lowering the heights of the turbines but the FAA Obstruction Evaluation still shows 599 on all turbines? Also earlier someone was claiming more turbines were being added but the FAA still shows 29 turbines. This stuff is pretty easy to look up so if you guys desire any credibility than why can you not get the simplest stuff correct?
7:13 Let me guess, the only reason 9:40 was wrong about the claim that Pioneer was lowering the heights of the turbines and the only reason you guys were wrong about the number of turbines was because Pioneer didn't send you a map diagramming it all for you right? Because public information all available on a single website would be too hard to look up and get correct right? Let me pose this question, are you guys so dishonest that you will lie about something it takes 3 minutes for someone to fact check you on or so incompetent that you cannot bother to spend the 3 minutes to check something before you make a claim? Or are you still contending that Pioneer is adding turbines and lowering the heights on the current turbines and somehow the FAA is just unaware of it?
7:13 There is no filing in Maryland for a turbine under 480ft. Check your information before you post. The circularized cases for Maryland are 29 wind turbines at 599ft and one casino tower at 230ft. The accuracy of your information (or lack thereof) is hilarious.
Too bad the PG guy has to have the last word. Just look at his posts, one lie after the other in an attempt to have us support a project that will lower our property values, increase our electricity costs, and make some of our homes unmarketable. Please stop insulting our intelligence.
7:07 SFS Guy, Once again you bring up your myth about electricity prices going up. This has been debunked several times if you read back through the thread. There has also been numerous peer reviewed studies cited that show no loss in property values. One lie after another? The proponents have made it a point to cite sources to back up their claims, whereas you just spew rhetoric and offer nothing to substantiate it. So it is obvious who is lying. Here is a link to the FAA Obstruction Evaluation Cases in Circulation.
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/searchResults.jsp?action=searchCircularizations&pageNum=1
The FAA Obstruction Eval was down this morning, probably because all 150 SFS members were on there at once trying to figure out how they got so much information wrong. But when the website is back up check it out. 29 turbines in permitting in Maryland all with a max height of 599. So who is lying? Right there are two easily refuted fables SFS has been telling. So are you guys so dishonest that you will lie about something it takes 3 minutes for someone to fact check you on or so incompetent that you cannot bother to spend the 3 minutes to check something before you make a claim?? Either way your credibility or lack thereof is obvious. The insult to intelligence is for you people to keep spreading falsehoods that can be proven as false in a few minutes using public information. I do not care if you support the project or not, but when you continuously spew false propaganda some proponent will be able cite facts and sources that shows you are either delusional or dishonest (or both).
7:07 You can't even figure out how to check the FAA Obstruction Evaluations which would verify that SFS is wrong about their map, their claims of additional turbines and their claims that the heights are being lowered but you accuse others of insulting your intelligence? I'm sorry but someone else already told you how to find the FAA Obstruction system with Google and you still cannot figure it out. Let me walk you through it AGAIN. Go to your browser window. Type- www.Google.com. Once that comes up go to that little bar thing in the middle of the screen and click it with the left button of the mouse. Now type- "FAA Obstruction Evaluation." It is the first link so click it with the left button of your mouse. Now go to the left side of the screen and click the button that says "View Circularized Cases" with the left button of your mouse. Now in the middle of the screen there is a bar so click it once again with the left mouse button and scroll down to "Maryland" and click it. Now since there are 30 cases in Maryland (29 wind turbines and one casino tower) you might need to get someone to help you count them as taking your shoes off isn't going to work past 20. But get someone to help you count them and verify there are 29 wind turbines being permitted around Crisfield. Now this part is pretty easy but go to the column on the right that says "Structure Height," this is the maximum height the permittee is seeking. Look the whole way up and down the column and see if you see any turbine being permitted under 599 or over 599. Now you might need to get a few people to help you with this part but open up Google Earth and use the waypoint feature to save a waypoint for each of the coordinates listed for a turbine permit and see all the possible locations for turbines that have been permitted. If you follow these steps you will see that SFS's map's one mile marker is way off, SFS's claims of additional turbines is wrong and SFS's claims that additional turbines are being added are wrong. Now that was the easy part. Go borrow a tax map and look up all the parcels SFS has posted and keep track of the names. Go to Google again (just follow the directions listed earlier if its too confusing) and type "Maryland Real Property Search SDAT". Click the first link. Now go to those bars on the bottom and select "Somerset" and for the search method select "Map/Parcel." Now for the 3 bars that come up type your Map number, the parcel number and for the last bar just put 000. Do this for all the parcels SFS has listed and you will see they cannot even get the names of the properties right. In short their claims of additional turbines are false, their claims that the heights are being lowered are false, their map is wrong and not even the names they post are right. Come back and let us know if you are still having problems and someone will help walk you through the process AGAIN.
This is from a quote in the Delmarva Farmer article published Feb 3rd.
"In the face of continuing opposition to its Great Bay Wind Farm in lower Somerset County, Md., Pioneer Green Energy is proposing a demonstration project — a single wind turbine, just under 500 feet high, in the area of the town of Westover. “We think it would be great,” said Paul Harris, who is directing the Great Bay development for Pioneer Green."
So perhaps this just might give the public the impression that Pioneer Green was planning a turbine under 500 feet.
PG guy, please explain how that turbine is not part of the Great Bay Wind Project, what exactly does that mean? Maybe PG has withdrawn plans for it, but you complain that the opposition is making false claims. This article was published just over a month ago!
121:08 Yes it has been stated that Pioneer had plans which were later scrubbed for a single turbine under 500 feet outside the Great Bay project. If you have questions about their plans for a single turbine then you should contact Pioneer (I think that has been stated a few times, you should really get help with your reading). This article was published over a month ago, but in the last few days you have claimed an inaccurate map is accurate, that there are more turbines then the 29 proposed and that Pioneer is lowering the heights on their turbines. All of this is quite obviously false. I am not complaining about you making false claims. I encourage it as you destroy your own credibility especially when you make false claims that can be verified as false within a few minutes. Please do not let me stop you, keep proclaiming about the mysterious extra turbine, the accuracy of your incorrect map and the theory that Pioneer is lowering the heights. In fact if it wouldn't be too much to ask could you put these claims on your website and Facebook?
Pioneer claims their information is proprietary. No joke. They have not provided any details to the public. Yet we are the ones who will no longer be able to sleep at night. In other places, people have basements. Many of them who live within 2 miles move their bedrooms to the basement because there is less obtrusion with low frequencies. Google Carey Schineldecker in Michigan, or David Enz from the Shirely Wind Project. Quite Disturbing. You also might want to look at California Ridge and Georgia Mountain. Better yet, go to windwatch, or brown county citizens for responsible siting, wind action is good too. There are thousands of sites and groups opposed to industrial wind in communities like ours.
Google is a great tool. You should learn to use it. Google the Simon Chapman Study. Chapman found that out of 49 wind farms surveyed 31 had never received a complaint. Of those remaining wind farms only 1 out of 272 ever complained. Google the Lawrence Berkeley Labs studies on property values near wind turbines. They have done several studies and none of them found any evidence of a negative effect on property values.
8:19 Really? They have not provided any details to the public? Proprietary? The map data, turbine heights and number of proposed turbines are public information. Public information, available on an easily accessible website. How is that proprietary? I found it all online in a few minutes, why cant SFS look up their information and get it correct? Are you joking? You cannot get any of your information correct even when it is public information and you blame it on Pioneer? Let me pose the same question again. Are you guys so dishonest that you will lie about something it takes 3 minutes for someone to fact check you on or so incompetent that you cannot bother to spend the 3 minutes to check something before you make a claim? I'm sorry I am just not buying your claims that it is Pioneer's fault you didn't know something when it is public information and I found it in just a few minutes. Granted it took me about 30 minutes to plot out the turbine locations onto Google Earth to see how far off your map was. But as for the bulk of what you are saying was "proprietary" information that you just couldn't find it literally took me less than 5 minutes. Let me pose another question for you, if SFS can't even get easily accessed public information straight how are they supposed to be reliable on any other information?
Pioneer Green is made up of lawyers, lobbyists, and a private detective.
7:45 Lol is that really all the opposition has left to say after all they have been called out on? Maybe SFS should hire a PI to look up the public information that SFS is insisting is proprietary. You guys were saying Pioneer had hired a farmer in Somerset County are you finally giving up on that story also? Don't you people have someone that can fact check your claims for you so at least some of the time your accurate?
It is important to note the commenter who is dissing SFS is a wind leaser. He is desperately trying to discredit SFS in hopes of quelling opposition. These attacks are coming from one family who holds a lease contract. The wife works in the county office building. Another conflict of interest perhaps????
SFS is made up of hard working people who have researched the effects industrial wind has on communities.
Seems to me that there is a definite pattern on this thread. Opponents make a statement or accusation almost always without reference then supporters of the project refute that claim generally with a cited source. The few times opponents have offered a source they have proven to be unreliable by cited research.So what difference does it make how many supporters are on here? Shouldn't the question be who is providing accurate information? The information provided by the opponents has been 100% refuted whereas when the supporters information is attacked the opposition only ends up with more egg on their face. How is someone's wife working for the county a conflict of interest unless she is involved with decision making or enforcement regarding the turbines. More disgusting innuendo! BTW there is more than one person posting in support of GB because there is at least one more possibly several.
@9:15 - desperate times call for desperate measures...I guess when your supposed facts are disputed and you are proved wrong once again, you have to resort to personal attacks.
Dear SFS. I just saw someone commented on your Facebook asking for the status of the project. The answer from SFS was a follows, "The developers have requested permission to begin construction on their first turbine (1 foot below what PAX River will allow) in June. Having said that, there are still ethics issues that need to be resolved before a wind turbine ordinance can be drafted, so the project might not start in June. Instead, it might start in December when the MIT study is done for PAX River is completed or when the PTC is extended by Congress." You are still claiming one turbine is listed at one foot below the line of sight for PAX? How are they permitting this mysterious single turbine below the line of sight for PAX if the FAA doesn't know about it? Even after at least two people have told you how to check the information you STILL cannot get the information right? I take it you were serious when you said Pioneer had to personally send you all the public information before you could be expected to get it correct.
Why is this turbine "mysterious"? Plans for it were published in the Delmarva Farmer and the Pioneer Green rep was quoted as saying that he looked forward to it. That article was published just a little over a month ago. I know you say it is off the table now, but are you seriously blaming other people for not having the inside scoop on Pioneer Greens latest move?
6:13 If you had ever checked the FAA website in an attempt to get correct public information you would have seen there is no extra turbine. One (1) turbine had a revised listing to 400 and some feet. Then when that was ruled out the turbine was reinstated at 599ft. Despite SFS's claims there has never been more than 29 turbines permitted, the turbines have never been over 599ft and only one turbine was considered at a lower altitude since the DoD's ruling. I do not fault you at all for not being up on Pioneer's latest plans. I do fault you for not being able to correctly read public information. The names on the map, the locations of the turbines and the turbine heights (except one) have not changed in years and yet you cannot get them correct. If your only mistake was thinking one turbine was still in permitting at a lower height I would let it go. However your map names are wrong, your one mile marker is wrong and in addition you have claimed there are more turbines being added and the entire project is being permitted at a lower height (this after you falsely claimed in the past that they were going for a higher height). To top it off you accused myself and at least one other person of lying and even after it had been proven to you even today SFS made the false claim that the project was converting to a lower height. This is public information. There is no excuse to get so much public information wrong. Had you come out and just admitted you really do not check public information before you make your wild claims you would have saved some face. But to then come out and blame Pioneer for you being unable to retrieve easily referenced public information, most of it from a single website is a laughable excuse.
So the Somerset County Wind Farm is not going to happen. Mainstream media quotes Great Bay as saying the reason they are pulling out is because of Barbara Mikulski's legislation. I think that is pure bunk. Another Smokescreen. The real reason its not happening is because of the multiple plain and simple ethics violations of the voting parties - the project would have been squashed anyway due to these illegal activities. Great Bay had no choice but to bail. I am curious what will happen with these Ethics violations now? Do you think Safe for Somerset intends to continue pursuing them?
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