DelMarVa's Premier Source for News, Opinion, Analysis, and Human Interest Contact Publisher Joe Albero at alberobutzo@wmconnect.com or 410-430-5349
DelMarVa's Premier Source for News, Opinion, Analysis, and Human Interest Contact Publisher Joe Albero at alberobutzo@wmconnect.com or 410-430-5349
75 comments:
Drink away buuuurp.
Agree!
Yes. Why not?
Disagree. Big fan of booze, but the original intent of the donor was no booze, period. If Wico doesn't like the rules, donate the bldg. to some other group.
I can assure you the booze sold will not come close to paying for the extra personnel and security.
12:29, Please explain your experience in this matter. Since you can assure us, how can our viewers trust such a statement coming from anonymous?
Agree.
The original intent of the donor was a ball park, too. Then wicomico county built the civic center on the land. So....
I agree with 12:29---- The original intent of the donor was no booze, period. The gift was accepted with this restriction, accept it as is or build your own, DON'T RENEGE NOW.......
You need to be selling the liqueur, so much of it is smuggled in anyway, the county should be getting taxes and profit from it.
As far as the "Original intent" for the land, read it, it was supposed to be a baseball field.
Best way to beat the naysayers on getting a liqueur license, turn the place over to the family, believe me, they don't want it. They don't even live in the area.
After they complain and bitch about the costs of owning it, they will gladly give it up, back to the county. Then do want you want.
I agree with 12:51.
2016 i agree.
disagree. live up to the agreement of no alcohol
I say NO , I believe we can enjoy things at the civic center without being impaired by booze. I used to drink and I now call it false courage . Some people such as myself get very different when drinking.
We have plenty of bars and stores around , enough is enough.
It is still called the youth and civic center , not a good example for our youths.
221-So you were the type to start fights while drunk instead of having a good time? I'm happy you quit drinking.
Do not agree with alcohol sales because the county accepted the land on condition of no alcoholic beverages. Maybe promote more family-friendly activities, shows, etc., or turn the property over to the Bd of Ed for school-related events. They have plenty of money!
As log as you can clear it with the representatives of the remaining family that made a deal.
No!! The deed provisions, when the land was originally obtained by the County, were very specific about having no alcohol period. The County agreed to these provisions and are legally obligated to abide by same. This is a family promotion and alcohol should not be permitted on the premises.
Who cares?
Don't sell alcohol because at some point the donating party was against it. Let slip into oblivion because people prefer to go to a venue for a show and enjoys a drink or two. Even movie theaters sell alcohol in many places except the slower lower. Don't keep up with the times and they pass you right by.
Honor the deed restriction.
The agreement was that no alcohol would be sold on the premises. There must be a creative way to get around that.
Joe--
As to 12:29's comment, it's correct. The intent of the donor was included in a no alcohol clause; Mr. Woodcock was very anti-alcohol, and was an ATF agent during prohibition, as I believe his father was. The county tried to get around it in recent years, thinking that the Woodcock family had no heirs left; turns out there was and they denied the alcohol. You seem to have disdain for anonymous comments, but have previously indicated your understanding of how people can lose their jobs for posting their thoughts/opinions. Which is it?
I walked away from a lot of years working for the county, and several people that are friends have to be careful about associating with me, or the hammer will come down on them. I guess as long as Rousseau is still in charge, some things wil never change; a fearful atmosphere is in no way a healthy job environment. So many beyond-qualified hardworking people have left because it is simply too much BS for too little pay and no respect or recognition. Unless you're in one of the big offices, then you get ridiculous pay, raises and benefits, lots of free food, etc. while the worker bees that are treated like crap can do your job for you and are told once again that there's no money for raises. Yet there's flat-screeen TVs as far as the eye can see!
It should sell it.. i could be wrong but wasn't it agreed upon no alcohol for a specific amount of time. Does anyone really know what the contract says?
lol...people, the family also said the space was for a ball park. Do you see a ball park there?
There is an easy way to solve this. Buy back the property the county "gave" away to Grumman and build an annex on that side of the Civic Center, maybe using a couple of excess "temporary" classrooms as a quick fix. There is no restriction on selling alcohol on THAT property. OR just redefine the "sale of alcohol" to mean only anything OVER 100 proof. Redefining words seems to be very popular these days...
If the agreement is no sale of booze then give it away!
:Let people purchase advanced tickets for drinks that they redeem them for wala, no sale of booze on premises, just a trade.
Who was the donor of the land?
The County has been in "violation" of the deed restrictions for years. First, there is no ball field and second, alcohol has regularly been "dispensed" through BYOB events and other bending of the rules with hospitality rooms. Mackes served alcohol to his crowd and former (and good riddance) Councilwoman Prettyman regularly brought multiple bottles of champagne to the Red Cross Luncheon. For the public to now take the position that the donor's wishes need to be honored is hypocritical when they have NEVER been honored by elected officials or county government leaders. Where were all these people when the Civic Center was built instead of a ball field and when liquor is allowed to be brought in and dispensed? This is just more of the kind of thinking that has driven this county into the ground. No progressive thinking. Other counties are blowing past us in every way. Wicomico is truly becoming the armpit of Maryland.
Ed Urban had a great plan on how to overcome the problem. Pollitt, Prettyman. Baker and the council had no guts to try and make it work.
I commend Culver for having the guts to at least try. He realizes the handicap the restriction puts on this county being able to grow the revenue at the Civic Center. I guess all the nay-sayers would rather Worcester become richer while we slide further down the economic scale.
Look for Cannon and company to fight this great attempt by Culver to bring us into the 21st century. If Bob said the grass was green, Cannon would disagree just to be his arrogant, difficult self. Seriously, sit back and watch him fight this.
I do not drink.
And i do not care.
Someone just trying to rub something in someones face.
Seems to me alot of religious and youth events still occur there.
Alcohol did not make any difference in some establishments prospering downtown so what difference will it make selling it and the expired civic center.
As far as the land, the donated part was the big part of the civic center. The smaller side where alcohol can be served was bought separately, this why it's BYOB. The chamber bought alcohol from the back door of the liquor store at discounted prices also. The good old boy net work still is alive and well. Selling alcohol will not only be going against selling wishes, it competes against local businesses that pay county taxes, they will get discounted more than any other business that buys alcohol now, and will promote drinking and driving. Hummm I think we need to disband the county selling alcohol, let the venders deal with the purchasers so we get not only the discount but the promotions. Our liquor dispensary now not only rips off the regular buyers but the business tax payers also. Double whammy... So let's see, county wins with selling alcohol either way... Private business needs to survive and if everyone is so intent on it at the civic center then purchase it. I assume they will get a sweet deal like the fire house because they can. Grease the palms (or palmers ) that feed you... Rich get richer and the rest well.... Live on the best we can.. Open this on the ballot and let people decide? Yea right... Sell civic center, let a private business succeed or not succeed. Who cares get real and tell mike Dunn, palmer gillis, Barrie Tilghman get there loans (he he he) ready.. Time to sell Salisbury or get owned by the club...
Honor the original agreement. Period.
honor the original agreement. There are many people who continue to live sober lives and have no need for boozing. It is about nothing but getting more money. Those who would change the rules now or float the rules as some have in the past have no morals.
So, so true. This statement is why I left the system, the eastern shore and the entire state. With the serious deterioration of this area, alcohol should NOT be sold at the civic center. The crime rate among all groups of law breakers is too high.
915-The original agreement called for a ball field, too...looks like the "agreement" was wronged for a long, long time1
There is no prohibition of alcohol comsumption on the donated land, only sales. The bldg is only partially built on the donated land. All that needs to be done is locate the selling point off the donated land. Period.
No prohibition on booze consumption.....remember the New Years Eve parties that were popular before 9/11.
There is no such no acohol agreement.
Sorry this is a non starter. They accepted the land gift with conditions. They accepted. It would not be right to change the deal now. The right thing to do is sell the old hole and start over. Sorry but the deal was the deal. Just like how headquarters live now wants hard liquor. Sorry boys the deal was the deal and you took it!
I thought the original Wicomico Youth and Civic Center was built with the intention of activities for the young people in the area, giving them activities and keeping them out of trouble. Maybe my memory is wrong on this as I am growing older. If this is correct, then it is understandable why there is to be no alcohol.
It does not say anything about the green. Move over Colorado here we come.
The funny part here is that it is government . If this were a private thing then no way this would happen When government gets involved and can change the rules for what it sees fit. This is a slippery slope to go down. I do think it is ridiculous that there is no alcohol but that was the deal and it does not look good on culver to try to Welch on the deal. He would get more support trying to build a new one then playing these cheap games.
It is very sad that with all the problems in Salisbury that this is even up for debate or is a concern.
Having followed this issue for 40 years it was always my opinion that the County could exercise eminent domain and condemn or "take" the deed restriction, but knowing how cheap gov't is I also realized it would not want to pay the heirs of the Woodcock family anything for it. The grantors may have abandoned the restriction just because they have not enforced it. If I were in charge I would try that first.
No it wasnt. There is no restriction banning the consumption of alcohol. Get your facts straight before you argue.
Someone else who is unfamiliar with the actual agreement and the boundaries of where the cc is built. The simple fact is that alcohol could now, and could always be sold there without violating any deed restrictions.
Yes! The deed restrictions are very specific and THERE IS NO PROHIBITION OF THE CONSUMPTION OF ALCOHOL. Alcohol has ALWAYS been allowed on the premises. Do you think there is no drinking going on in the "VIP Areas" during events? Remember the "Bright Lights, Big City" New Years Eve parties?
No need. Alcohol can be sold without breaking the deal. All you have to do is sell it in the part of the bldg that is not on donated land.
It appears that the majority of the posters on here are ignorant of the facts of this situation. First off, there is NO prohibition on consumption of alcohol. Second, the bilding is only partially located on the donated land. There has never been any legal roadblock to selling alcohol there. Politicans have misinformed the public so they can hide behind the deed restriction to promote their own agenda. Joe, you should publish a copy of what the deed restriction really says. Its public record.
This is a concern because if they sold alcohol the place could at least break even financially instead of being a huge financial drain on the county.
Who ever heard of a venue where ZZ Top played that didn't serve alcohol? Right here at the Civic Center is where. Of course they played on a Sunday night and were off the stage before 9:00. An uninspired pedestrian performance due to the failure to provide alcohol. Backwards ass town plagued by big city problems. How ironic.
I have said it before and will say it again. Build a new civic center where the Old Mall was. Bring in a minor league hockey or basketball team. Once again the Country wants to drop-what did I read 3 to 4 million?-on "improvements"....
If my taxes need to go up say $100 a year for 5 years to make this happen I have no problem with it but I want it done not another 20 studies for my money. Problem is there are too many people around that will say "I dont go to the Civic Center why do my taxes have to go up"....well you may not use some other local services but your damn sure paying for them.
Worcester County is so far ahead of the curve here maybe we shouldnt even bother. I am already driving to OC and Easton to see live national acts, maybe that's where my $100 needs to go for gas....
The Perdue Stadium had the same alcohol restriction when it was given a Conditional Approval before the Wicomico County Board of Zoning.
I vividly remember the alcohol restriction. And for the SBYnews readers - the alcohol restriction was pre-empted when Norman Conway sponsored legislation to place the facility under State control - as opposed to local autonomy.
Then - Norman Conway voted for legislation to apply surcharges on Wicomico County Civic Center ticket sales, and, increased the hotel/motel room taxes.
However - he got caught with his 'hands in the kitty' because of the advent of the internet.
The Rap concerts are violent enough.
It is very simple and has been presented and ignored for years.
10:40, Do you realize just how full of crap you are. You don't go to Rap concerts.
There are numerous bars on the Shore that have a variety of different music and this even includes underage businesses.
Salisbury has certain non profit businesses that have had massive fights and shootings and could never provide the kind of protection Wicomico County could provide.
Now here's my personal opinion on the Civic Center.
STOP letting everything DIE around here. In order to grow, in order to bring in bigger entertainment, in order to be self sufficient the next step is to add alcohol.
In one breath many of you say NO to this but in the other breath you'll say, WHY is the County trying to spend $100,000,000.00 on a new facility elsewhere.
You need to make up your mind. The younger generations are what needs to garnish attention because as time goes on, we die off and leave the County with nothing. Not everyone is a DRUNK.
There is a massive majority of people who drink responsibly. Those who do not are caught and punished. Not everyone follows the letter of the law. Do you do exactly 55 mph on Rt. 50 at all times?
Just because we have representatives who are forward thinkers doesn't mean we should all criticize their proposals. My guess is, 99% of those saying NO to this proposal are people who do NOT attend events at the Civic Center anyway.
Heck, unfortunately, for all we know it could be one anonymous person making numerous comments in the hope of bashing Bob Culver and the Council. After all, that is exactly how the Liberals around here act on Blogs. Sucker punch and run, all under anonymous.
No agree with 3:16 was not intended for and shouldn't be, enough places to buy alcohol, and enough places to drink it.
No I don't go to rap concerts but I have seen the damage after the concerts and read the police reports I've been here a hell of a long time. I can tell by your snarkinessyyou have an angle here.
11:46, Let me show you how good I am at this. You see, I've been doing this for 11 years now.
Each person has what I call a finger print in their comments. For you, check this out. I'd say you made the following comments on this article. I'd say you are, 12:29, 2:21, 3:16, 4:42, 9:04, 10:54 and 11:46.
You see Folks, ONE person is usually behind the majority of negative comments.
Now, can the rest of you figure out how I came up with this?
Amos Woodcock donated the land contingent on it being a "dry" operation.
11:53, More BS. We PUBLISH all of the press releases and there's NEVER been one stating what you imply.
I have no ball in the game, ("angle") as you suggest. Would it be a positive financial move for the County, absolutely. Trust me, it would bring in far more business that would far outweigh the business they'd lose because you disagree.
You see, this is how good business people make good decisions. There are times decisions are made to go in one direction, even though you as a business owner might not even agree. This is one of them. The Wicomico Civic Center has, (for the majority of its existence) always been a financial failure.
Oh, by the way, do share a link to any information you have seen referencing what you suggest in damage.
11:58 Amos Woodcock did not donate the land, it was Franklin Woodcock. Same family, wrong man. That's how aware you aren't about this situation.
another uninformed poster. no he did not. alcohol consumption is allowed and happens frequently. check ur facts b4 u run ur mouth. sheech!
The bottom line here is there is NO legality issues preventing alcohol sales. The issue needs to be decided on the merits and negatives of alcohol sales, not allegiance to some long gone tea totaler.
Again, sell all the alcohol that you wish. But sell it at an exorbitant price that will self-impose limits on how much individuals consume. Most folks who "just want to enjoy a drink" should have no complaint. The random fool who wants to get drunk will, hopefully, decide to stay home with a more-affordable case of beer.
This has been talked about for 30 years.
It is not a violation of the deed restriction to consume alcohol in the civic center.
I've always thought it would be a bad idea to go against the land "gifters" wishes as it would be a breach of trust committed by the county. That being said, I think there is almost always a personal motive involved when you put stipulations on "gifts". If you're concerned about how something will be used its probably best not to give it away.
The fact is this.. it does make economic sense to sell alcohol there. Which is basically the question being asked in the post. So I'd have to say yes, I agree.
There are enough people making more money than myself that can figure out a way the WYCC can legally get around the stipulations. It's been proven already if the intention was a ballfield.
For everyones information, there was a ballfield where the Civic Center is located.
I remember as a kid in the 40,s and 50,s there was a large ballfield there, I also remember attending a rodeo at the ballfield sometime during that period.
I guess the ballfield was torn down to built the civic center.
Are you kidding? Weed is open for ANYONE and booze is in question? Please ask the question again.
Hardly.
You still can't light up a joint in public, anywhere, without risking arrest and life-destroying criminal charges. In designated areas, alcohol can be legally consumed. The government is quite willing to graciously indulge the enjoyment of certain vices, if tribute is tendered for the pleasure of the Fed's coffers.
So little has changed, in the rule of grift in public administration of private affairs.
Yes sell away. I am a life long resident of Salisbury and I dont care what a teetotaler born 4 generations ago thinks. Prohibition was declared a failure and it continues to be upheld with current "intoxicants" being decriminalized at a rapid pace. If you dont like it dont drink. If you cant handle your booze, dont drink. Its all very simple if you value personal responsibility.
We dont live in Phili and this is not veteran stadium. The residents of the area are not uncivilized and issues with alcohol are minimal.
A lot of this sounds like what the meaning of "is" is. If alcohol was not to be dispensed, how does someone bringing their own bottle and sharing it with friends not fall under "dispensing". I think the intent was for the land to be "dry" under all conditions.
Again, the County has been in violation for years.
With that said, I am sure those who sat on the various commissions who studied this during the years felt that alcohol would enhance revenue by attracting better acts and possibly a sports team. The REAL problem is does the public have the stomach for paying for building a new Civic Center when we are already taxed to the max. I think Culver is trying to put lipstick on a pig. I don't mean that as a criticism. I think his first choice would be to build new, but he realizes the state of the taxpayers in this county. BTW - thank your Democratic friends for forcing out businesses and upper income homeowners thanks to the taxes.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Yes sell away. I am a life long resident of Salisbury and I dont care what a teetotaler born 4 generations ago thinks. Prohibition was declared a failure and it continues to be upheld with current "intoxicants" being decriminalized at a rapid pace. If you dont like it dont drink. If you cant handle your booze, dont drink. Its all very simple if you value personal responsibility.
We dont live in Phili and this is not veteran stadium. The residents of the area are not uncivilized and issues with alcohol are minimal.
January 3, 2016 at 7:27 PM
You don't care because you are a loser! Some of us are decent and have respect for other peoples wishes!
I agree there was a ballfield there. I went to a wrestling match there
Featuring Chief Big Heart.
He drove a big Cadillac to the park and officials were concerned
About where he parked his car because it might block traffic
I was there I am 69 years young!
I say do a survey of the donated property then decide what to do
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