A new talking point claiming that Freddie Gray’s original arrest was unlawful has arisen, propelled by the claim yesterday by Prosecutor Mosby that the knife seized from Gray by police was legal to possess in Maryland.
As reported by the New York Times:
Ms. Mosby faulted the police conduct at every turn. The officers who arrested him “failed to establish probable cause for Mr. Gray’s arrest, as no crime had been committed,” she said, describing the arrest as illegal. Officers accused him of possession of a switchblade, but Ms. Mosby said, “The knife was not a switchblade and is lawful under Maryland law.These statements are remarkably insensible coming from someone who has attained the position of state prosecutor.
Mosby Issue #1: Spring-Assisted Knives Almost Certainly ARE Illegal Under MD Law
First, it raises a question of whether Mosby is simply facially incorrect in claiming that Gray’s knife is legal. It has been described in news reports as “spring-assisted.” If that description is explicitly false and there was no spring assist mechanism, then it is likely that Gray’s knife was not unlawful.
If, however, it was spring-assisted than it certainly seems it would be unlawful under Maryland law.
The Criminal Code of Maryland, §4-105, defines a “switchblade knife” as:
(1) a knife or penknife having a blade that opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring, or other device in the handle of the knife.More
56 comments:
None of the charges are going to stick.
Could you post the news sources or documents that claim it was "spring assisted" ? I only heard her say it wasn't a switchblade and it was in the closed position. I am not knife saavy and need some educated assistance.
Interesting. I want to go back and re-read this carefully but I did read the Gray's charging docs and the knife described did appear to be illegal. If he were on probation, he shouldn't have anything more than a kitchen knife, which is to not leave the kitchen.
On a side note-the author of this article is a famed defense attorney with decades practicing law under his belt. He was spot on every single step of the way with other well publicized cases in the past few years and was able to determine outcomes beforehand exactly as they occurred.
"Almost certainly"?
When one is "speaking from authority" one is obligated to certainly know what one is talking about.
Just about every pocketknife has a "spring assist" mechanism of some type, to open it. A "switchblade" mechanism pops the blade out, more or less ready for use. Not even in the same category as a standard pocket knife, which extends the blade enough past the case so it can then be grasped and opened manually.
9;16 if you Google Freddie Gray documents and go to Google images you can see the other pages of the charging docs.
Or they are posted on the Baltimore Sun site.
9:45 Re read-
"Indeed, the City of Baltimore has adopted as an ordinance its City Code §59-22, which states in relevant part:
Switch-blade knives. (a) Possession or sale, etc., prohibited. It shall be unlawful for any person to sell, carry, or possess any knife with an automatic spring. (emphasis added)
Thus (and again assuming Gray’s knife was spring-assisted, as widely reported), even if Mosby is correct (unlikely) that the knife was legal under Maryland state law, it would still arguably have been illegal under Baltimore code §59-22."
If the arrest is eventually determined to be legal - for whatever reason, it can't be murder!
Meanwhile, Ms. Mosby by her actions, words, and demeanor, clearly has an agenda of her own! It will be very difficult to get cooperation from the remainder of the law enforcement departments for a great while after she is gone from that city.
The speed at which the initial investigation was completed in order to charge six police officers is amazing! I have seen preliminary investigations take a lot longer and still not result in charges. She wants to be able to extract her pound of flesh for long-term personal gain!
it doesn't open 'automatically'. you have to continue pushing with your finger to get the knife to open.
talk about a media whore.
What this attorney is saying, is that under Balto city code, any knife with any mechanism that aids in it's opening is defined (by their code) as a switchblade and is illegal.
This would include a knife that is spring assisted as this aids in the extension of the blade.
The next question becomes-what happens when the defense finds all kinds of cases where there were arrests and convictions of defendants found w/the same style of knife.
Baltimore is majority black. Majority black city council. Majority black police force. Black police commissioners, Black police supervisors, Black Mayor, Black Prosecutor.
The information from the case was not going to be released on Friday as they stated numerous times. Then first thing Friday they released the information and filed charges immediately. This was a criminal who ran, probable cause. No one witnessed murder! Maybe negligence at best. The statements that illiterate black woman stated was an embarrassment to justice. She did it because Gray was black. Had nothing to do with crowd control. She was black, Gray was black and the rioters were black. Most black people hate cops. They use the excuse of police brutality as the reason they run. That is bullshit. They run because they are criminal thugs.
The arrest of the 6 police officers because of the charges filed by that black woman was an injustice to justice.
That is what you get when you have black people and Democrats running this country.
That's what I'm getting out of it, 11:59. Under the Baltimore Code any knife that has any kind of mechanism that aids in it's opening under Baltimore Code is defined as a switchblade and is illegal. This would explain the what appeared to be a discrepancy in the charging docs.
Most think of a switchblade as having a button and the blade pops out but the Code defines switchblade as any knife that has something that aids the blade in extending.
I guess the SA forgot to get the memo that said Baltimore City has a more stringent law in regards to this, than does the state.
The knife is describes as a "spring assisted, one hand operated knife."
The BPD said they were going to turn over their investigation to the SA on Friday. They ended up turning it over a day before, incomplete. They are still investigating. They assumed the SA would want to do further investigating to make sure the PD task force had crossed all their T's and dotted all their I's and if she were doing her own investigation things matched up and if they didn't figure out why. This is why the BPD was saying to not expect much on Fri. They were taken by surprise as much as anyone when she made that announcement. There are more details about this in the Baltimore Sun paper.
The law is vague and if I am recalling correctly Baltimore got jammed up in court over this exact same law a couple of years ago. I wonder why no one on the council or the mayor thought to clarify it.
The Sun article is called "Exclusive look inside the Freddie Gray investigation" and was written by Justin George, who was allowed to view what was going on while the investigators worked.
Here's the thing. Both on the left and the right are overwhelmingly saying she rushed and only did this to stop the riots. Only a very few are saying no way would she risk her reputation. She is in a win win situation because her constituents are so low information that when she "loses" she can then blame it on "a system that metes out justice unfairly to young African American males."
So, if the reason he was arrested was originally because of "eye contact", then running, the knife was never part of the arrest in the first place.
For all we know, it was either in his pocket or planted at this point, if in fact it was illegal.
Bottom line, between the time hands were laid on him for "eye contact" and arriving at the cop shop deceased, those cops owned his life, and now they own his death.
Reasonable doubt! !!! Not guilty! #!! But the black mayor and black district attorney will play the role until the end. These cops are innocent but I love how the black politicians play the black community with the help of Sharpton. They are so stupid they get played EVERYTIME!!! HAHAHA
To all who don't have a clue , a knife with spring assisted opening and can be opened by a flick of the hand , is illegal in the state of Maryland.
The knife in question is exactly one that can be opened with a flick of the hand or wrist.
having said that , the individual who had the knife was guilty of a crime. End od discussion.
No we do know 3:27 unless we are to presume the SA is lying she said while reading the state of probable cause-
"Officer Miller and Nero then placed Mr. Gray in a seated position and substantially found a knife clipped to the inside of his pants pocket. The blade of the knife was folded into the handle"
I've been hearing a lot about this part of the statement of probable cause-
"The manner of death deemed homicide by the Maryland Medical Examiner is believed to be the result of a fatal injury that occurred while Mr. Gray was unrestrained by a seatbelt in the custody of the Baltimore Police Department wagon."
Legal commentators are saying this is like the Eric Garner case-an "illegal" chokehold that wasn't illegal but against policy and grand jurors didnt' indict.
They are comparing the lack of seatbelt to this. It's not the law put a dept policy and the murder/manslaughter charges would go right out the window is she had taken this first to a grand jury.
11:59 - if they find arrests alone for that kind of knife, this arrest becomes acceptable as providing good-faith purpose on the arresting officers...that part of the charges should not be able to acquire conviction - unless you want to place a stumbling block in front of every future arrest!
If they find arrests coupled with convictions for that kind of knife, then the (now we'll be able to refer to him as a) thug's arrest and potential future conviction would be the potential cause of his activities trying to escape - and would lead to potential doubt on the part of any jury of the officers' peers...and they'll never get a conviction!
But there will then be more riots!
Any one but me thinks Obama told her to this? I feel that evil is behind all this crap. Yes she and the mayor are not help the people of Baltimore. To get to where they are they should be showing that anyone can be what they want to be if they work at it. Nothing will change for them (black or white) until they make the change. O needs to be out of office asp or we will have more of the same till 2016 if then. I still say he will do something to make sure he does not have to leave OUR white house. Watch he will. map
Exactly my point, 4:15! At the point the police hands had been placed upon him illegally, and he was illegally placed in a seated position, then illegally searched, everything is illegal. Because so far, it's "eye contact".
That throws anything found after that right out the window of any courthouse in America.
Where do you live?
The thug was a KNOWN criminal in the area and when fast freddie started Running the cops took chase.
I hope the police union lawyers sue the crap out of this liberal useless clown.
A spring assisted opening knife is to a switchblade as a Semi-automatic rifle is to an Automatic rifle. Not the same thing.
No 6:16-go and read the statement of charges a transcript of which is online.
"At the point the police hands had been placed upon him illegally, and he was illegally placed in a seated position, then illegally searched, everything is illegal. Because so far, it's "eye contact"."
None of this matters. The illegal arrest is based solely on her claim that the knife is legal to carry in Baltimore. Nothing more nothing less. Go back and read.
Ever heard of stop and frisk. Perfectly legal. That's what they did after he surrendered (SA's word not mine.) Being cuffed doesn't mean you are under arrest. As far as the running he was in a high crime area, when he ran, 2 of several factors that must be met to give chase as a matter of fact the highest crime area in the whole state of MD.
The chase isn't even an issue as isn't whether he was injured before being placed in the van.
I live in Middleburg VA on an 800 acre plus horse farm, why?
6:33-legal definitions are not always the same thing we think something may be. Baltimore City Code defines a switch-blade knife as more than what most people think of as a switchblade. The title of the article in the code is "switch-blade" knives not just switchblade and knife is in the plural.
Baltimore is in for big economic trouble.
It was a beautiful day today, anyone thinking about not going to the inner harbor?
Anyone thinking about catching a night O's game now?
I am sure the list goes on and on.
6:46, then why did she come out so fast? I have watch this from the beginning not saying I know everything but I can go on what I have watched and read and this whole thing got out of hand. But it was reported that the mayor had talked to Obama then she said she would welcome Sharpton to Baltimore. But I will say for the 100th time O will be in everything that deals with white on black but where is he when a black person kills another black person or where was he when a white baby in its stroller was shot in the face by black a male because he wanted money from the mother (that she didn't have) walking down the street. Look I know not every race is bad and di fell that the MIA plays on it. I am also saying that the cops where right or not. I have been watching FOX, CNN and a few other just to hear what is being said on both sides. What have you done to see all sides? Look if the cops acted wrong then I have no problem spending my tax money on their 3 meals and a cot but can you say the same if they don't go jail? Sorry I just felt I had to say this. map
" or planted at this point, if in fact it was illegal."
Nah---This would be like saying the knife was returned to Freddie's family after he died, and the Gray family lawyer----You know the one Billy Murphy, he donated the max amount to the SA's campaign, is her mentor and was a member of her transition team----turned over to the SA a different *legal* knife.
What this attorney is saying, is that under Balto city code, any knife with any mechanism that aids in it's opening is defined (by their code) as a switchblade and is illegal.
the code says automatic does it not? there are plenty of knives that can be opened with a flick of the wrist, one handed, or whatever other reason you guys are pulling out of your butts.
The author of the linked post is Andrew Branca. He's been an attorney for over 30 years and is an expert in US self defense law. He also consults and is the "go to" lawyer for lawyers when a client intends to use self defense as a defense.
"then why did she come out so fast?"
Well map, it depends on who you ask.
The left says it was to appease the protesters. The right is saying it was to appease the thugs. That's the only explanation for the the rush.
"I hope the police union lawyers sue the crap out of this liberal useless clown.
May 3, 2015 at 6:20 PM"
All the officers have private attorneys who were with them at their initial appearances. Some are described as Baltimore area "super" lawyers. They are being well represented.
"Nah---This would be like saying the knife was returned to Freddie's family after he died, and the Gray family lawyer----You know the one Billy Murphy, he donated the max amount to the SA's campaign, is her mentor and was a member of her transition team----turned over to the SA a different *legal* knife.
May 3, 2015 at 7:28 PM"
This is interesting. Billy Murphy was on TV all last week saying the arrest was illegal then in the next breath was sorta complaining the PD wasn't giving him any info.
I wonder how he would have known the arrest was illegal if he didn't have any info.
"Freddie Gray’s Knife – Why is Prosecutor Claiming Unlawful Arrest?"
Duh.
Because there's a lynch mob in the street and none of the democrats running the city had the courage to take on leadership roles.
Interesting-
"On April 29th the Washington Post ran an explosive article highlighting information from a passenger who was inside the transport vehicle at the same time Freddie Gray was driven toward central booking. According to the Washington Post source: Freddie Gray was intentionally “trying to injure himself“.
On April 30th local Baltimore media outlet WBAL-TV introduced Donta Allen, a person they claimed was the passenger in the transport vehicle.
Our research indicates the office of Baltimore State Attorney, Marilyn Mosby, used or allowed one of her deputy State Attorneys, Janice Bledsoe (who was in charge of the investigation as assigned by Marilyn Mosby), to willfully and intentionally place a false story using Bledsoe’s lover, WBAL-TV reporter Jayne Miller, and thereby create a fictitious story to imply Donta Allen as the passenger outlined in the Washington Post story.
Yes, you read that correctly.
The full story: The Washington Post does not specifically name the passenger who heard Freddie Gray attempting to injure himself. However, they do provide details as to the identity – details we can independently confirm."
map, if she has the case she wants all to believe she has, she would have taken it to the Grand Jury first.
Mob control was the reason for the quick reaction.
She can't lose.
When a lot of the charges get tossed and the officers are acquitted on the rest,-------because any trials WILL result in a change of venue where the officers can get a fair trial by a jury of their peers, people who are educated and have jobs----- she can denounce "the system" to the "oppressed" claiming there are "systemic problems throughout" which is causing the justice system to be "stacked against" them.
Lol, the knife wasn't spring loaded. It was a lie to cover the arrest and than when the knife was turned in there was no spring, hence the arrest was illegal.It was also 3 inches or less which is legal in Maryland.
Baltimore is dead to me I will never spend a cent in that black hole they call Charm City.
Liberals have ruined a great place. Who wants to go there for anything other then the great hospitals. I rather die in PRMC then got into that ghetto for anything. Blake is a racist pure and simple.
As long as the cops acted in good faith this dumb biotch has nada.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
"then why did she come out so fast?"
Well map, it depends on who you ask.
The left says it was to appease the protesters. The right is saying it was to appease the thugs. That's the only explanation for the the rush.
May 3, 2015 at 10:27 PM
No the left says college students, not protesters.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
The author of the linked post is Andrew Branca. He's been an attorney for over 30 years and is an expert in US self defense law. He also consults and is the "go to" lawyer for lawyers when a client intends to use self defense as a defense.
May 3, 2015 at 10:13 PM
so?
Are you an attorney 8:47? Or are you just pea green with envy of people whose opinion should be given much greater weight because of their accomplishments and their excellent peer review ratings?
I think the latter will prove to be true as it's apparent you are seething with bitterness and jealousy.
Anonymous said...
Are you an attorney 8:47? Or are you just pea green with envy of people whose opinion should be given much greater weight because of their accomplishments and their excellent peer review ratings?
I think the latter will prove to be true as it's apparent you are seething with bitterness and jealousy.
May 4, 2015 at 1:33 PM
and you STILL didn't answer the question. are you a politician?
4:34-
No, but you never asked me the question, to begin with.
I've been reading much about this and it has been mentioned more than once on other sites, that the notice of intent to sue official by the 6 officers is the huge clue that the defense has proof that this is malicious prosecution.
The reason being is that this notice guarantees that the states attorneys office can not participate in the criminal phase because they are going to be on trial, witnesses etc in the civil trial that is to come and the defense can't throw this out there without proof in hand that the prosecutor did something unethical or illegal or both.
In other words all 6 of the attorneys that signed the notice aren't going to risk their right to practice over some trick to fool the judge.
where do you get your information from? Sounds like you made it up - like the three inch rule. There is no length restriction on folding knives in Maryland.
She's done and so are some others and it's not the Baltimore 6. For whatever reason she stepped in bed with the crooked ex cop Avon Markel, by not just hiring him but by allowing him to do her investigating. There is no honor among these types.
8:40-the length has nothing to do with anything nor does MD law. Get that your head right now. Forget MD law. Baltimore city has it's own laws which are more restrictive than MD law regarding knives. This happened in that city, so not only does MD law apply but so does city code.
U really need to read Ms. Mosley's qualifications. Your the ignorant one. I hope all of those police officer get what they deserve. Time in prison.
117 they will be set FReeeeeeeeeeeee lol then bring on the riots , lock and load.
1:17 Mosby has ZERO qualifications. She wasn't accepted into law school on her first attempt even with the quotas to fill (affirmative action.) This means she didn't score well on the LSAT's. She didn't pass the bar until years after she graduated. Code for she failed it probably multiple times.
She inherently has corruption in her blood as her father was a corrupt cop. Now with that being said, her mother had her at 16 yrs of age and she was born illegitimately so there's probably some doubt as to who her father is-you know the type.
She's a liar as confirmed by her own family who have come out publicly saying she lied about the circumstances concerning the murder of a relative.
If you watch the arrest video you can see the knife at the beginning of the video off to the left side.
While reading over Mosby's semantics, I came upon this curious revelation-
“Mr. Gray suffered a severe and critical neck injury as a result of being handcuffed, shackled by his feet, and unrestrained inside of the BPD wagon.”
Critical isn't fatal.
If you listen to the "2nd prisoner" Donta Allen TV interview he said he heard someone at the PD saying Gray swallowed something.
Gray ODed. How much you want to bet and this is why ME report is being kept under wraps.
If any of you lived in Baltimore you would welcome the calm brought about by her actions.True,it's just delaying the inevitable,but residents living in a war zone will take peace and quiet any way they can get it.My father used to tell me "Do something even if it's stupid".Her father must have had the same mindset.
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