Hey Joe
Did you see the cost of the new middle school. $79,000,000. The article states that the square footage of the building is either 115,000 or 150,000 square feet. This makes the cost $687.00 or $527.00 per square foot. Both are absolutely ridiculous. No wonder we are broke.
Thanks
DelMarVa's Premier Source for News, Opinion, Analysis, and Human Interest Contact Publisher Joe Albero at alberobutzo@wmconnect.com or 410-430-5349
39 comments:
I'm building a 143,000 sft middle school in Fairfax Va for only 23 million. Something doesn't sound right.
9:37 --
That's in Virginia; this is Maryland.
9:37:
Can you say "Davis-Bacon Act"?
How mauch of that cost is for architects fees -- several million, I'll guess -- when they could use "off the shelf" plans for much less.
Who is the architect that designed that outlandish palace?
Is the AFP crowd going to stop this totally absurd project? They should be on it ASAP and with full force.
Davis-Bacon wages are used on all public projects; including Va. Also, NOVA has higher wages due to cost of living increases.
Even if wages were higher in Salisbury, the price of project would not be triple the cost.
How many illegal workers are on this site?
Anonymous said...
9:37 --
That's in Virginia; this is Maryland.
9:55 AM
WOW!! Great point 9:56 AM. Spending $56 million more in Wicomico County is definitely a better deal then poverty stricken Faifax County Virginia. What an idiot. Must be a board member.
Nobody said...
What do you think the square footage cost of a new high tech school that is being designed environmentally friendly should be?
11:03 AM
I don't know, but I don't you pay for it.
The price of this project is probably 40% higher because of all the environmental constraints imposed on the project by the state. Look at the green roof. Literally plants growing on the roof to manage stormwater run off. Where is the last place you want to store water? Also it must be Leed certified in order for the State to provide funding. In addition, the state requires certain minimum square footage requirements per student that are just absurd. Also keep in mind that every kid that has asthma, or other health issues requires certain air quality standards that must be adhered to.
Then throw in the Davis-Bacon wage requirements and you can quickly see how the price rises in a hurry.
Its a bold new world out there folks that we are being forced to pay for.....
A regular commercial building that you and I work in would cost us $200-$300 per sq foot including site improvements. Then add in athletic fields, gymnasiums with lockers and showers, industrial bathrooms because kids destroy everything that isn't indestructible. Wow.
11:55-
It will be built, if ever by a firm like Whiting-Turner with subs from elsewhere for the most part. Little "jobs" benefit for Wicomico County.
Will the architect Stand Up, Please !
Now we know why the taxes in Virginia are much lower than in Maryland.
Joe:
What is the cost/ft of that new high school on College Avenue?
That is a staggering amount per square foot for a school. By comparison:
"Eliza Northrop Elementary and Waite Elementary, which also opened this year and will be dedicated tonight, were built with revenues generated by the 0.5 percent sales tax increase voters approved in 2007 for school district capital improvements.
The combined bids for both schools came to $119 per square foot. The buildings, which are mirror images of each other, have 71,000 square feet and a 650-student capacity. The average cost of a school as determined by the Ohio School Facilities Commission is $140 per square foot. The combined cost of the schools was $19.2 million.
The schools are one-story buildings, with classrooms wrapped around the perimeter to make use of natural daylight. The interior core space houses the gym, art center and other common areas."
That really is a very high cost per square foot.Something not right .
Anon 11:59 AM,
You are definitely a WCBOE employee with all that inside information.
Once again I feel I must chime in to correct all the nonsense; managing these type of LEED projects is my specialty.
There are lots of state funded projects that LEED certified just in order to get funding, but LEED certified doesn't cost this much.
The solar panels for this type of project will run about 1.5 million; this includes all of the inverters, supports, and etc... The green roof may add another 300,000 to the price; which in my opinion is pointless if you put down a White (reflective) PVC membrane roof.
The HVAC system is really nothing out of the ordinary, LEED requires building managers to check up on the system every six months and change the filters (you'd be surprised how often this doesn't happen). The LEED HVAC portion actually uses more energy than a standard system. The reason is that according to LEED there a "comfortability" requirement which means more thermostats all over the building. For example: Do you save more money having one thermostat set at 68 degrees or several set at varying temps across the building that are constantly being adjusted?
Either the Architect clearly overvalued building or this middle school is going to be so nice that each desk has its own Ipod station with computer.
Ask them how well all those zones and t-stats are working at Delmar high school. Geo-Thermo systems are a joke.
10:50
You are correct Wicomico County/Salisbury DOES NOT have COMMON SENSE!!
That is why the county is the way it is because anyone is charge is a joke and all they want to do is spend money we don't have.
"Ok look im a teenager, and for as long as i can remember Bennett Middle has been beside James M. Bennett for quite a long time. Why does Salisbury have to spend so much more on re-locating Bennett Middle"
Look, even the teenagers around here have common sense! Perhaps we should load the BOE and Council with a bunch of high schoolers-they would know how to manage money a lot better than the ones we have now. Think about it, when you're a teenager you have little to no credit so your debts can't get out of control. As a teenager you have to actually work for your money and then you have to spend it wisely to make what little money you get last until you get paid again. It would make complete sense to me!
I'm voting for Anon 10:50 during the next local election!
Im sure there was a huge cost to keep having this school redone. First it was suppose to be at one location then they changed it again. Meanwhile all the local contractors are jumping thru hoops so that they can give most of it to companies NOT from here!
10:50 I don't know the exact details but they wont rebuild the new middle school at the old high school because the state requires so much open space. Once the middle school is demolished they will obtain this open space. It doesn't make sense to me either. Over spoken environmental wackos are ruining this state.
This is typical of ALL gov projects. They more they spend, the more they scream they need, the more justification for raising taxes. Why do you think everyone would love to get gov contracts? Because they always over spend, the more it cost...the happier they are. They ALWAYS over spec. Ask anyone who has ever looked at any set of specs for a gov project...its LOADED with over kill. Governments local and abroad have been doing this for many many years, its typical procedure. Noone at the top wants to be the one to put a stick in the spokes, noone wants to be the first to stop the run away cart...
Anon 11:59 AM,
You are definitely a WCBOE employee with all that inside information.
Interesting there is little to no money for the students and teachers of Wicomico County yet this board member has time to sit on their computer at work and respond to these posts.
Maybe he (or she) need to GO!!!
Most local contractors are not worth the time to hire, they almost do more damage than good to a project. Worst of all they come with this "this how we do things here" attitude. I know from personal experience. I heard first hand that during the construction of the high school some local contractors or locally hired electricians did a fair amount of damage to several other trades work during the construction.
There are some good local contractors, but most do not know how to operate a computer, maintain schedules (ie take off a week to go deer hunting), and they cannot maintain their paperwork to do a government job.
Glad to see my Property Taxes are being used for people who most likley dont pay taxes ,to put there kids through school at MY COST,,,,,????????????
Joe, please do a STORY on the above subject,its not fair for property owners that DONT have children in the system have to pay for other peoples kids,If you have a child in school then YOU should have be taxed for every child YOU have in the system NOT ME,or any ELDERLY PERSON.
THIS HAS TO CHANGE
To be fair, most local contractors don't want to work for General Contractors such as the one working on the High School. They have no idea how to manage a job and try to screw contractors every chance they get. They have no actual construction experience but still believe they know more than the contractors who do it every day. The worst part about it is that it cost tax payers more money because the contractors throw in the ahole fee in their price. If they have to deal with a ahole GC for over a year they are gonna make sure they make a lot of money.
Bottom Line is they need a new school. Never heard any complaints when they re did the Parkside High School. Bennett Schools are FINALLY getting attention. Not agreeing we need to spend that amount of money but a new school is needed.
To 3:17 - I have 4 children in PRIVATE school, so I am paying twice! However, I do understand that I am paying for the fact that school-aged children are not running the streets (at least from 8 - 3), and I am also paying for the education of our future police officers, doctors, teachers, etc. that are necessary for our society to keep on going. Though I disagree with the way public schools are run, and usually the way our tax dollars are used, I do understand the reason we ALL need to pay.
albert:
That is moronic.
Much of our tax dollars don't come back directly to us.
You don't hear me complaining about the thousands I throw away into social security every month...for the 'ELDERLY PEOPLE' as you put it.
If I didn't have to pay social security, I could easily cover the cost of my kids' education.
Who was the bozos that did all the planning to have both schools put on the same locations only to find out down the road that they both could NOT be put there. HOW MUCH money was wasted because they dont know what the heck is going on.
Sure, lets not build a new school, lets just let the old one fall apart and rot. While we are at it lets also not fix all those pot holes y'all were whining about yesterday. Heck, I don't drive on most of those roads - so why should I pay for it?
4:22- you are right to an extent. most of out town GC's do not know much about construction; they are simply numbers people. they only build per the plans and specs, no common sense on construction matters is needed. if its not in the plans it doesn't get installed. the problem is that most local contractors do not understand how this works, they simply do not understand the limits of their contracts, or their scope. I see it everyday. The GC's treat the subcontractors the same way the Government treats the GC's.
I love it how Mardela was dew for new school a few years ago and suddenly gets by-passed and build a new bennet. I truely think that the bored of ed doesnt care about mardela. If they did they would see they need a new school.
fyi
my recolection of the cost of parkside high school was $13.5 million built by a local contractor. this building should not cost more than $200 per square foot. it does not need green roofs or solar panels or glass walls. this is absolutely ridiculous. our children do not need monuments to learn in. how about a rectangular building that has windows and ddors and heat, air conditioning and lights
It is sad that local contractors don't have the opportunity to work on these new school buildings, but I believe I understand why...did you ever try to get one of them to bid on and actually show up to do a job at your home? Impossible. They all want to cry that there's no work, but they DON'T WORK when there's work to be done! As for the schools, I agree that something is wrong with that price and it should be checked out. BUT, when you have former teachers running the BOE (which, like it or not, IS a BUSINESS) they are clueless. This entire county is just a falling apart mess and I wish I knew what to do about it. To the Mardela fan, go see the old JMB and Bennett Middle and tell me again why Mardela should have been redone first (and "dew" learn to spell while your at it).
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