There is unrest in the forrest There is trouble with the trees For the Maples want more sunlight And the Oaks ignore their pleas
The trouble with the Maples (And theyre quite convinced theyre right) They say the Oaks are just to lofty And they grab up all the light But the Oaks cant help their feelings If they like the way theyre made And they wonder why the Maples Cant be happy in their shade
There is trouble in the forest And the creatures have all fled As the Maples scream Oppression And the Oaks, just shake their heads
So the Maples formed a union And demanded equal rights The Oaks are just to greedy We will make them give us light Now theres no more Oak Oppression For they passed a noble law And the trees are all kept equal By hatchet, Axe, And saw.
Ahhh yes the union, Lets see how the union keeps the car business floating like they did Crown in Salisbury years ago. My dad lost his job because of the union. Workers said we don't want to strike, Union said yes you will and low and behold no more Crown. No more pay but oh yeah wait, still had to pay their dues. While my dad was out finding work, for them to keep their insurance, mom had to walk the line because the union said so. Man those are some good memories. Thanks
I'm sorry that your family's experience with unions was such a bad one. That, however, doesn't discount the tremendous amount of good that unions have provided for America.
Unions paved the way to the middle class for millions of American workers and pioneered benefits such as paid health care and pensions along the way. Even today, union workers earn significantly more on average than their non-union counterparts, and union employers are more likely to provide benefits. And non-union workers—particularly in highly unionized industries—receive financial benefits from employers who increase wages to match what unions would win in order to avoid unionization.
But, remember, as your own story illustrates, unions are a bureaucracy, and are subject to corruption, incompetence, and greed. We need a balance, and unions are part of that balance.
This cartoon is so true. Ahhh yes the good old days. The good old USA home of the brave and land of the free. I am 56 years old and I remember the sixties very well. Everyone was prosperous and yes the Vietnam war was going on also. But unemployment was low . Everyone had jobs and things were great. Why because we had less government control. We still had our freedoms. Like the right to keep and bear arms. We could hunt and fish and have lots of outdoor recreation, without the government breathing down our necks and telling us we are pollutung the world. We did what free people had done for years and it was great. But now the snake oil salesman Obama has fooled everyone into thinking that we can't exist unless the government has control of everything. I say bull give me freedom or give me death. Stop the non-sense. Their is no such thing as global warming it is a conspiracy to get the government to control everything and raise prices just like with the flurocarbons and freon we used to use. They say that they caused a hole in the ozone. Bull there has always been a hole in the ozone at the north pole. The next thing they will have you convinced that you have to pay them just to breathe. So wake up America and say no to Socialism and Communism and lets try to take this country back and make it a free country again the same one your fathers, grand fathers and great grand fathers fought and died for so we could be free. Don't be like the guys in the cartoon so eager to sign on before you know what you are giving up. WAKE UP AMERICA Obama has done the ultimate snow job on you and you are sucking it up and saying yes our government will take care of us. Well our government has screwed up Social Security and everything else they had control of. And to top it all off we are the ones paying for all of it. The working middle class. In case you haven't noticed everytime Obama is asked a question he never answers it he just keeps saying we need to sacrifice now and it will get better in the future. What he fails to tell you is the future he speaks of nevers comes we just keep on sacrificing more and more until we are just as poor as the other Communist countries.And it isn't a democrat or a republican thing. It is a government thing to control everything. There is no future in that for any of us. Think about that for a while. Then do whatever you can to keep our country a free country and don't buy into the ism that Obama is trying to sell you.
Yes, Chuck, and it's these higher - often ridiculous - wage and benefit packages that have pushed the cost of products so high that consumers can't afford them. That leads to businesses shutting down - like Crown and Dresser. Unfortunately the money donated to the two leading political parties have led to legislation being passed that promotes unions in private industry so strongly that now the UAW union will own 55% of Chrysler. Does anyone else see where this is heading?
Yes, Chuck, back in the day unions were necessary to provide safe working environments. But that doesn't discount all the bad they've done by forcing smaller manufacturing jobs out of business or to sell to larger companies that could afford to relocate them overseas. There are now laws that protect workers from unsafe work environments. Anyone who has ever had a jobsite or business visited by MOSH know this all too well. Unions had their time and have now outlived their useful lives. They currently serve only to line the pockets of politicians and union bosses who sit on the a**es all day and do nothing but collect money off of the hard work of the people they claim to represent. They collect what they can and when they ultimately push companies out of business they move on to the next one leaving the newly unemployed on unemployment. Unions in private industry are a joke.
I disagree. Union membership has dropped rapidly since the 1970's, and we've seen real wages drop since then as well. Unions built the middle class, and they are needed in order to maintain the middle class.
You talk about unions driving up costs until businesses can't compete. Have you ever thought that poor management has done the same thing? What about the fact that prior to unions, workers couldn't even afford the products that they were creating?
I'm sorry, but when unions go away, we'll see a return to the robber baron days of company stores, company script, unsafe working conditions, lower wages, and a bigger disparity in pay throughout the country.
There are good unions and bad unions. But you don't throw the baby out with the bath water. You fix the bad unions, and make the good ones stronger.
I worked at Dresser and believe me the wages won't that high. Yes we got a decent wage. But we did not go on strike to get more money. We went on strike to keep what we already had. The company was trying to take away what we alrady had. What men in years past sacrificed for so we could have a decent wage and health benefits. The truth is Haliburton bought out Dresser but they only wanted the oil drilling and such. They had no interest in the pump division and from the time they bought Dresser untill they sold the pump division was two years. But dresser was on the market for that long.When the sold the pump division the new owners decided to move the operation to Texas. That was already were the main offices were. So it wasn't the Union at all. I know I worke there for years. Just try and get your story straight before you speak of the things you know nothing about,
3:58 "I am 56 years old and I remember the sixties very well. Everyone was prosperous and yes the Vietnam war was going on also. But unemployment was low. Everyone had jobs and things were great. Why because we had less government control. We still had our freedoms."
You have no idea what you're talking about!! You're looking at history with rose colored glasses. We have FAR more and better freedoms today than we had in the '60s. Shall we list the freedoms we have today, that we didn't have in the '60s
1. Freedom to not get drafted. That was a big one. The Vietnam was was a moral abomination, and not going was a moral obligation for many.
2. Freedom to get an abortion. That was before Roe vs. Wade.
3. Freedom from religion. The 1st amendment pertaining to religion was viewed and enforced in a different way back then. Religion was rampant and religious oppression was tolerated.
4. Freedom for gays. Now they can get married in any of several states. Back then, gay sex was a felony in most places.
5. New freedoms for minorities. That was before most of the effective affirmative action efforts.
6. Freedom of the press. Remember the pentagon papers? Remember how Nixon sought felony treason convictions... It was very different back then.
7. Equal employment opportunities. Back then employers could discriminate based on age, sex, race,... you name it. Discrimination was the norm.
8. ...
Anyway, the list goes on and on. Many of our recent freedoms were hard fought by groups such as the ACLU, and other advocacy groups.
The bottom line is that, as a nation, we have far more INDIVIDUAL freedoms today than we had in the '60s. So... Before you go on and on about loss of freedom, think about what freedoms we have won since the "good old days".
It's ironic that the only group in the country working to eliminate hard fought personal freedoms are the right wing conservatives... the very group now screaming about loss of freedom!!
8:12 it's exactly your type of loony left radical liberal thinking that's ruining this nation. I wont break down your list and make a fool of you because it's not worth the time and you wouldn't comprehend it anyway. Nanny government is not the answer and what you listed are not rights given, but taken away from the true American tradition. Socialism is alive and well and you can't see for the hate and blame you hold against your country. Shame on you.
The only people I've seen "ruining" the nation are authoritarian right-wing pseudo conservatives who continue to apologize for torture, suspending habeas corpus, the dismantling of due process, and arguing for decreased rights of other people.
chuck said... Not to be confused with real Conservatives... who are decent, honest people.
2:14 PM ------------------------------- This I agree with, 'true' conservatives in DC are far and few between. The problems we face today is with the far left and those that carry the republican badge but think like FDR. The PC crowd is way out of hand and so is everyones a victim. "Words" really don't matter, and "we live in the greatest nation in the world" and lets "change" that is just, well stupid. The sooner we get rid of the treasonous trader in the white house the better we will be, if we can recover.
1:09 "...what you listed are not rights given, but taken away from the true American tradition."
(8:12 responding here) No. You use the word "freedom", but you've been listening to Rush Limbaugh too much. You seem to have NO clue what "freedom" means. Freedom MUST be equated with individual rights. Without rights you are not free. Freedom has NOTHING to do with preserving tradition, unless that tradition involves rights.
Go to the dictionary and read the definition of "freedom". Do it.
"Socialism is alive and well and you can't see for the hate and blame you hold against your country. Shame on you."
Wrong. Socialism is not rampant here. This just shows your ignorance of political systems around the world. I've travelled to dozens of countries on all of the continents (except Antarctica), and I've seen poverty. I've seen socialism. I've seen communism... You know not of what you speak.
As for hate and blame? I neither hate not blame my country. I blame Bush for most of our recent troubles. Bush is not my country.
(8:12) No. You use the word "freedom", but you've been listening to Rush Limbaugh too much. You seem to have NO clue what "freedom" means. Freedom MUST be equated with individual rights. Without rights you are not free. Freedom has NOTHING to do with preserving tradition, unless that tradition involves rights. -------------------------------- Hmmmmm? a liberal mind reader huh? I do not and have never listened to Rush. Freedom has everything to do with preserving traditions. -------------------------------- (8:12) Go to the dictionary and read the definition of "freedom". Do it. -------------------------------- I think you should follow your own advise. Do it. -------------------------------- (8:12) Wrong. Socialism is not rampant here. This just shows your ignorance of political systems around the world. I've travelled to dozens of countries on all of the continents (except Antarctica), and I've seen poverty. I've seen socialism. I've seen communism... You know not of what you speak. ------------------------------- Typical; when a lib is cornered start name calling. ------------------------------- (8:12) As for hate and blame? I neither hate not blame my country. I blame Bush for most of our recent troubles. Bush is not my country. ------------------------------- And there it is, BDS at it's best, you 'hate' and 'blame' if it were not bush it would be something or someone else. Until the far left can actually see the err of their ways it will never "change" the hypocrisy and lack of morals of the liberal left is out of control, from the party that preaches "open minds" sure does need to heed their own advise.
Wow. And I thought it was the religious right that had trouble with morals. It seems their whole ethical system of beliefs is based on some silly 10 point list, and the religious right can't even figure out what the list really means.
Their list based morality is also bartered on a punishment and reward system (heaven and hell), rather than on a foundation of ethical principles.
In fact, the most religious, have the fewest morals. Look at the Taliban as an excellent example. Morality is replaced by abject dogma. We seem to have an American version of the Taliban right here that is equally lacking in morals. From your writing, I believe that you have a rather confused set of morals.
By contrast, many of the liberal left have a sound moral foundation based ethical philosophies of humanism. No silly 10 point list is needed to figure out right and wrong. Morality is true...
Bottom line. Watch your tongue when you talk of morality, especially if yours are build on a foundation of sand.
What is it with extreme Conservatives like you, when backed into a corner, claim that someone was calling you names? No one called you any names. Stop playing the victim. No one is buying it anymore.
I also found these two comments pretty telling:
1.) "I do not and have never listened to Rush"
2.) "And there it is, BDS at it's best"
Hmm.. you wouldn't be talking about "Bush Derangement Syndrome", would you? The right-wing extremist phrase coined by... wait for it.... RUSH LIMBAUGH!
When you lie about not listening to Rush, maybe you should not use his own labels later on in the same comment?
chuck: "Hmm.. you wouldn't be talking about "Bush Derangement Syndrome", would you? The right-wing extremist phrase coined by... wait for it.... RUSH LIMBAUGH! "
LOL! "BDS" went right over my head. I think that the whole country has BDS. Obama is using it to steamroll the entire right-wing.
I did take time yesterday to listen to Rush for about 40 minutes. It seems as though Rush lives in a parallel nightmare universe. It's no wonder that people who listen to him and drink the kool-aid are paranoid freaks.
But for the life of me, I can't see why that narcissistic windbag is so popular. His analysis is shallow and trite. He takes pride in anti-intellectualism and, as such, his world view is rudimentary and flawed. There's nothing there to aspire to, and he's certainly no role model. I can't imagine a parent saying "When you grow up, I want you to be just like that boorish guy Rush Limbaugh".
Oh... But he's a glorious "small tent" conservative. He's the best thing the Democrats have going for them. With Rush as the de-facto leader of the GOP, it looks like the Dems may pick up another 3-4 senate seats in 2010. If that happens, then Obama will be able to steamroll the conservative democrats too.
And I agree... 7:57 is a liar. Morality does not seem to be his strong suit.
I never called you a liar. I said that you lied. And you did. You quoted Rush Limbaugh and you also said you never listen to Rush Limbaugh. So, you lied.
Liberals get their morals from the same place that Conservatives do: from their parents and their culture. Atheists get their morals from the same place. It does not require religion to have morals.
Yes, you're acting like a victim. Get over it. You lost the last election, and now you're sulking. It happens. I wasn't happy with our government from 2001 to 2009. Now it's your turn.
There is no study that supports your ludicrous claim that "Liberalism is a mental disorder". The person who says that all the time is Rush Limbaugh... the guy you claim never to listen to. Once again, proving that you're lying.
"Hate and blame" (another Rush quote)? Show me where I've expressed any hatred. And, yes, I lay blame at the feet of whomever owns it. So do you. So does everyone.
Do you have any talking points that don't come directly from Rush, aren't completely distorted, and actually address any real issues? Because your blind hatred of Liberalism isn't really a valid "point".
1:12 "explain where the liberals that are atheist get their morals.
Go ahead, lets hear how you know what and what is not moral? "
Isn't this a fun thread...
Chuck basically has it right. Morals come from a foundation of ethical principles, and is usually learned from parents and society. If these are based on humanism, then the morals are a logical extension.
Where it gets strange is when religious dogma gets in the way of ethical principles. This is why self professed atheists seem to have better morals than religious people. Simply put, religion can and does subvert ethics.
Here's a perfect example. On YouTube there's an ongoing battle between the atheists and the creationists. One side just got caught stealing money from a charity drive for a children's hospital (search venomfangx for details). So, who got caught? the atheists or the creationists?
During the trial for intelligent design in PA, which side was caught lying and committed perjury? Atheists or Christians? Take a guess.
Sure, there are bad people on both sides, but one side always seems more ethically challenged...
30 comments:
Obama is the snake oil salesman
There is unrest in the forrest
There is trouble with the trees
For the Maples want more sunlight
And the Oaks ignore their pleas
The trouble with the Maples
(And theyre quite convinced theyre right)
They say the Oaks are just to lofty
And they grab up all the light
But the Oaks cant help their feelings
If they like the way theyre made
And they wonder why the Maples
Cant be happy in their shade
There is trouble in the forest
And the creatures have all fled
As the Maples scream Oppression
And the Oaks, just shake their heads
So the Maples formed a union
And demanded equal rights
The Oaks are just to greedy
We will make them give us light
Now theres no more Oak Oppression
For they passed a noble law
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet,
Axe,
And saw.
Neal Peart.
And the Congressmen never read the "contract".
Does that apply to capitol-ism?
Cool out guys, it'll never happen.
Anonymous said...
Cool out guys, it'll never happen.
6:13 PM
--------------------------------
where are you? it already has happened.
It's lovely to see 70 year old (yes, this was made in 1935) anti-Union propaganda. It's almost as funny as watching "Reefer Madness".
Ahhh yes the union, Lets see how the union keeps the car business floating like they did Crown in Salisbury years ago. My dad lost his job because of the union. Workers said we don't want to strike, Union said yes you will and low and behold no more Crown. No more pay but oh yeah wait, still had to pay their dues. While my dad was out finding work, for them to keep their insurance, mom had to walk the line because the union said so. Man those are some good memories. Thanks
8:51,
I'm sorry that your family's experience with unions was such a bad one. That, however, doesn't discount the tremendous amount of good that unions have provided for America.
Unions paved the way to the middle class for millions of American workers and pioneered benefits such as paid health care and pensions along the way. Even today, union workers earn significantly more on average than their non-union counterparts, and union employers are more likely to provide benefits. And non-union workers—particularly in highly unionized industries—receive financial benefits from employers who increase wages to match what unions would win in order to avoid unionization.
But, remember, as your own story illustrates, unions are a bureaucracy, and are subject to corruption, incompetence, and greed. We need a balance, and unions are part of that balance.
This cartoon is so true. Ahhh yes the good old days. The good old USA
home of the brave and land of the free. I am 56 years old and I remember the sixties very well. Everyone was prosperous and yes the Vietnam war was going on also. But unemployment was low . Everyone had jobs and things were great. Why because we had less government control. We still had our freedoms. Like the right to keep and bear arms. We could hunt and fish and have lots of outdoor recreation, without the government breathing down our necks and telling us we are pollutung the world. We did what free people had done for years and it was great. But now the snake oil salesman Obama has fooled everyone into thinking that we can't exist unless the government has control of everything. I say bull give me freedom or give me death. Stop the non-sense. Their is no such thing as global warming it is a conspiracy to get the government to control everything and raise prices just like with the flurocarbons and freon we used to use. They say that they caused a hole in the ozone. Bull there has always been a hole in the ozone at the north pole. The next thing they will have you convinced that you have to pay them just to breathe. So wake up America and say no to Socialism and Communism and lets try to take this country back and make it a free country again the same one your fathers, grand fathers and great grand fathers fought and died for so we could be free. Don't be like the guys in the cartoon so eager to sign on before you know what you are giving up. WAKE UP AMERICA Obama has done the ultimate snow job on you and you are sucking it up and saying yes our government will take care of us. Well our government has screwed up Social Security and everything else they had control of. And to top it all off we are the ones paying for all of it. The working middle class. In case you haven't noticed everytime Obama is asked a question he never answers it he just keeps saying we need to sacrifice now and it will get better in the future. What he fails to tell you is the future he speaks of nevers comes we just keep on sacrificing more and more until we are just as poor as the other Communist countries.And it isn't a democrat or a republican thing. It is a government thing to control everything. There is no future in that for any of us. Think about that for a while. Then do whatever you can to keep our country a free country and don't buy into the ism that Obama is trying to sell you.
Yes, Chuck, and it's these higher - often ridiculous - wage and benefit packages that have pushed the cost of products so high that consumers can't afford them. That leads to businesses shutting down - like Crown and Dresser. Unfortunately the money donated to the two leading political parties have led to legislation being passed that promotes unions in private industry so strongly that now the UAW union will own 55% of Chrysler. Does anyone else see where this is heading?
Yes, Chuck, back in the day unions were necessary to provide safe working environments. But that doesn't discount all the bad they've done by forcing smaller manufacturing jobs out of business or to sell to larger companies that could afford to relocate them overseas. There are now laws that protect workers from unsafe work environments. Anyone who has ever had a jobsite or business visited by MOSH know this all too well. Unions had their time and have now outlived their useful lives. They currently serve only to line the pockets of politicians and union bosses who sit on the a**es all day and do nothing but collect money off of the hard work of the people they claim to represent. They collect what they can and when they ultimately push companies out of business they move on to the next one leaving the newly unemployed on unemployment. Unions in private industry are a joke.
'When people fear the government, that's tierney; when the gov fears the people it's LIBERTY' -Thomas Jefferson
Bob,
I disagree. Union membership has dropped rapidly since the 1970's, and we've seen real wages drop since then as well. Unions built the middle class, and they are needed in order to maintain the middle class.
You talk about unions driving up costs until businesses can't compete. Have you ever thought that poor management has done the same thing? What about the fact that prior to unions, workers couldn't even afford the products that they were creating?
I'm sorry, but when unions go away, we'll see a return to the robber baron days of company stores, company script, unsafe working conditions, lower wages, and a bigger disparity in pay throughout the country.
There are good unions and bad unions. But you don't throw the baby out with the bath water. You fix the bad unions, and make the good ones stronger.
In the words of Jimmy Hoffa,"Its Union busting, thats all it is".
We must be intolerant of anyone trying to seduce us with Socialism
I worked at Dresser and believe me the wages won't that high. Yes we got a decent wage. But we did not go on strike to get more money. We went on strike to keep what we already had. The company was trying to take away what we alrady had. What men in years past sacrificed for so we could have a decent wage and health benefits. The truth is Haliburton bought out Dresser but they only wanted the oil drilling and such. They had no interest in the pump division and from the time they bought Dresser untill they sold the pump division was two years. But dresser was on the market for that long.When the sold the pump division the new owners decided to move the operation to Texas. That was already were the main offices were.
So it wasn't the Union at all. I know I worke there for years. Just try and get your story straight before you speak of the things you know nothing about,
3:58 "I am 56 years old and I remember the sixties very well. Everyone was prosperous and yes the Vietnam war was going on also. But unemployment was low. Everyone had jobs and things were great. Why because we had less government control. We still had our freedoms."
You have no idea what you're talking about!! You're looking at history with rose colored glasses. We have FAR more and better freedoms today than we had in the '60s. Shall we list the freedoms we have today, that we didn't have in the '60s
1. Freedom to not get drafted. That was a big one. The Vietnam was was a moral abomination, and not going was a moral obligation for many.
2. Freedom to get an abortion. That was before Roe vs. Wade.
3. Freedom from religion. The 1st amendment pertaining to religion was viewed and enforced in a different way back then. Religion was rampant and religious oppression was tolerated.
4. Freedom for gays. Now they can get married in any of several states. Back then, gay sex was a felony in most places.
5. New freedoms for minorities. That was before most of the effective affirmative action efforts.
6. Freedom of the press. Remember the pentagon papers? Remember how Nixon sought felony treason convictions... It was very different back then.
7. Equal employment opportunities. Back then employers could discriminate based on age, sex, race,... you name it. Discrimination was the norm.
8. ...
Anyway, the list goes on and on. Many of our recent freedoms were hard fought by groups such as the ACLU, and other advocacy groups.
The bottom line is that, as a nation, we have far more INDIVIDUAL freedoms today than we had in the '60s. So... Before you go on and on about loss of freedom, think about what freedoms we have won since the "good old days".
It's ironic that the only group in the country working to eliminate hard fought personal freedoms are the right wing conservatives... the very group now screaming about loss of freedom!!
8:12
it's exactly your type of loony left radical liberal thinking that's ruining this nation. I wont break down your list and make a fool of you because it's not worth the time and you wouldn't comprehend it anyway. Nanny government is not the answer and what you listed are not rights given, but taken away from the true American tradition.
Socialism is alive and well and you can't see for the hate and blame you hold against your country. Shame on you.
1:09,
The only people I've seen "ruining" the nation are authoritarian right-wing pseudo conservatives who continue to apologize for torture, suspending habeas corpus, the dismantling of due process, and arguing for decreased rights of other people.
Not to be confused with real Conservatives... who are decent, honest people.
chuck said...
Not to be confused with real Conservatives... who are decent, honest people.
2:14 PM
-------------------------------
This I agree with, 'true' conservatives in DC are far and few between. The problems we face today is with the far left and those that carry the republican badge but think like FDR. The PC crowd is way out of hand and so is everyones a victim. "Words" really don't matter, and "we live in the greatest nation in the world" and lets "change" that is just, well stupid. The sooner we get rid of the treasonous trader in the white house the better we will be, if we can recover.
1:09 "...what you listed are not rights given, but taken away from the true American tradition."
(8:12 responding here)
No. You use the word "freedom", but you've been listening to Rush Limbaugh too much. You seem to have NO clue what "freedom" means. Freedom MUST be equated with individual rights. Without rights you are not free. Freedom has NOTHING to do with preserving tradition, unless that tradition involves rights.
Go to the dictionary and read the definition of "freedom". Do it.
"Socialism is alive and well and you can't see for the hate and blame you hold against your country. Shame on you."
Wrong. Socialism is not rampant here. This just shows your ignorance of political systems around the world. I've travelled to dozens of countries on all of the continents (except Antarctica), and I've seen poverty. I've seen socialism. I've seen communism... You know not of what you speak.
As for hate and blame? I neither hate not blame my country. I blame Bush for most of our recent troubles. Bush is not my country.
(8:12)
No. You use the word "freedom", but you've been listening to Rush Limbaugh too much. You seem to have NO clue what "freedom" means. Freedom MUST be equated with individual rights. Without rights you are not free. Freedom has NOTHING to do with preserving tradition, unless that tradition involves rights.
--------------------------------
Hmmmmm? a liberal mind reader huh?
I do not and have never listened to Rush. Freedom has everything to do with preserving traditions.
--------------------------------
(8:12)
Go to the dictionary and read the definition of "freedom". Do it.
--------------------------------
I think you should follow your own advise. Do it.
--------------------------------
(8:12)
Wrong. Socialism is not rampant here. This just shows your ignorance of political systems around the world. I've travelled to dozens of countries on all of the continents (except Antarctica), and I've seen poverty. I've seen socialism. I've seen communism... You know not of what you speak.
-------------------------------
Typical; when a lib is cornered start name calling.
-------------------------------
(8:12)
As for hate and blame? I neither hate not blame my country. I blame Bush for most of our recent troubles. Bush is not my country.
-------------------------------
And there it is, BDS at it's best, you 'hate' and 'blame' if it were not bush it would be something or someone else. Until the far left can actually see the err of their ways it will never "change" the hypocrisy and lack of morals of the liberal left is out of control, from the party that preaches "open minds" sure does need to heed their own advise.
7:57 "...lack of morals of the liberal left ..."
Wow. And I thought it was the religious right that had trouble with morals. It seems their whole ethical system of beliefs is based on some silly 10 point list, and the religious right can't even figure out what the list really means.
Their list based morality is also bartered on a punishment and reward system (heaven and hell), rather than on a foundation of ethical principles.
In fact, the most religious, have the fewest morals. Look at the Taliban as an excellent example. Morality is replaced by abject dogma. We seem to have an American version of the Taliban right here that is equally lacking in morals. From your writing, I believe that you have a rather confused set of morals.
By contrast, many of the liberal left have a sound moral foundation based ethical philosophies of humanism. No silly 10 point list is needed to figure out right and wrong. Morality is true...
Bottom line. Watch your tongue when you talk of morality, especially if yours are build on a foundation of sand.
7:57,
What is it with extreme Conservatives like you, when backed into a corner, claim that someone was calling you names? No one called you any names. Stop playing the victim. No one is buying it anymore.
I also found these two comments pretty telling:
1.) "I do not and have never listened to Rush"
2.) "And there it is, BDS at it's best"
Hmm.. you wouldn't be talking about "Bush Derangement Syndrome", would you? The right-wing extremist phrase coined by... wait for it.... RUSH LIMBAUGH!
When you lie about not listening to Rush, maybe you should not use his own labels later on in the same comment?
chuck: "Hmm.. you wouldn't be talking about "Bush Derangement Syndrome", would you? The right-wing extremist phrase coined by... wait for it.... RUSH LIMBAUGH! "
LOL! "BDS" went right over my head. I think that the whole country has BDS. Obama is using it to steamroll the entire right-wing.
I did take time yesterday to listen to Rush for about 40 minutes. It seems as though Rush lives in a parallel nightmare universe. It's no wonder that people who listen to him and drink the kool-aid are paranoid freaks.
But for the life of me, I can't see why that narcissistic windbag is so popular. His analysis is shallow and trite. He takes pride in anti-intellectualism and, as such, his world view is rudimentary and flawed. There's nothing there to aspire to, and he's certainly no role model. I can't imagine a parent saying "When you grow up, I want you to be just like that boorish guy Rush Limbaugh".
Oh... But he's a glorious "small tent" conservative. He's the best thing the Democrats have going for them. With Rush as the de-facto leader of the GOP, it looks like the Dems may pick up another 3-4 senate seats in 2010. If that happens, then Obama will be able to steamroll the conservative democrats too.
And I agree... 7:57 is a liar. Morality does not seem to be his strong suit.
more liberal mind reading, as I said I do not listen to Rush, I am not a holy roller.
explain where the liberals that are atheist get their morals.
Go ahead, lets hear how you know what and what is not moral?
"Liar"?? this coming from a lefty.. too funny. prove it.
"victim" this coming from a lefty?
sound to me like y'all libs are listening to Rush more than the far right.
liberalism is a mental disorder. studied and proven. look it up.
oh, and there's that "hate and blame" again libs. It's a shame you can't see it.
how many things in those last 2 post did you state that you hate and/or blame? sad, really sad.
1:12 and 1:24,
I never called you a liar. I said that you lied. And you did. You quoted Rush Limbaugh and you also said you never listen to Rush Limbaugh. So, you lied.
Liberals get their morals from the same place that Conservatives do: from their parents and their culture. Atheists get their morals from the same place. It does not require religion to have morals.
Yes, you're acting like a victim. Get over it. You lost the last election, and now you're sulking. It happens. I wasn't happy with our government from 2001 to 2009. Now it's your turn.
There is no study that supports your ludicrous claim that "Liberalism is a mental disorder". The person who says that all the time is Rush Limbaugh... the guy you claim never to listen to. Once again, proving that you're lying.
"Hate and blame" (another Rush quote)? Show me where I've expressed any hatred. And, yes, I lay blame at the feet of whomever owns it. So do you. So does everyone.
Do you have any talking points that don't come directly from Rush, aren't completely distorted, and actually address any real issues? Because your blind hatred of Liberalism isn't really a valid "point".
1:12 "explain where the liberals that are atheist get their morals.
Go ahead, lets hear how you know what and what is not moral? "
Isn't this a fun thread...
Chuck basically has it right. Morals come from a foundation of ethical principles, and is usually learned from parents and society. If these are based on humanism, then the morals are a logical extension.
Where it gets strange is when religious dogma gets in the way of ethical principles. This is why self professed atheists seem to have better morals than religious people. Simply put, religion can and does subvert ethics.
Here's a perfect example. On YouTube there's an ongoing battle between the atheists and the creationists. One side just got caught stealing money from a charity drive for a children's hospital (search venomfangx for details). So, who got caught? the atheists or the creationists?
During the trial for intelligent design in PA, which side was caught lying and committed perjury? Atheists or Christians? Take a guess.
Sure, there are bad people on both sides, but one side always seems more ethically challenged...
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