I am starting at SU this fall. Because of my continuing interest in fire/EMS, and my knowledge that SFD has a live-in program for SU students, I contacted Gordy's office and put in an application. I was contacted and went through the interview process. At that time, there was no mention of the prospective daytime shift changes at all the stations. It was pushed as an excellent opportunity for any students coming to Salisbury who have Md FFI cards. The more I look at things, this is starting to look like a screw-over (mainly in the interests of time management) for any students interested in the live-in program.
What you receive from Salisbury Fire Department:
A dormitory style room, one of four built into station 16.
Volunteer status at station 16 and all associated rights, responsibilities, and privileges.
What you give to Salisbury Fire Department:
48 duty hours per week, mostly designed to augment the duty engine crew at nights. Duties include typical response to calls, and other housekeeping duties as assigned by the shift A/C.
Training, meeting, and other events as described by the Salisbury Fire Department by-laws.
What you DON'T get from Salisbury Fire Department:
A meal stipend while on duty. You are expected to pay for your own meals any nights you are on the duty crew in addition to any nights you want to eat at the firehouse when you aren't on duty.
Any monetary reimbursement for your time on duty.
Any other forms of reimbursement for your service.
EDIT: I am NOT seeking any monetary or other forms of reimbursement because I understand this is a volunteer agreement.
My personal evaluation of the program:
There are several flaws in the design of this program, however I will say that as of right now the particulars of the contract are being worked about by the administration within the department. The first major flaw is working hours. A full time college student, such as myself, has on average 15 hours of classes per week, an average of 5 hours of study time per week (may vary), may need to maintain a part-time job (say 15 hours per week). This is 40 hours per week of time, not taking into consideration eating, sleeping, R&R and social life, travel time, and other small necessities. Granted, part of my duty hours will be nights when I am "sleeping" (if such a thing exists), but this still adds a significant strain to my schedule every week. I believe that this is being worked on by the people involved with the program, they aim to shorten the duty hours requirement to 42 or 36 according to the information I have received.
The second flaw in my opinion is the lack of meal reimbursement for time on duty.
Since this is an exchange of services, wouldn't it also make logical sense that if they are requiring you to be on duty they should reimburse you for meals? By this I don't mean breakfast and lunch necessarily, those can be eaten on campus or packed as they are not routinely prepared by the career crew. However, dinner is prepared by the duty crew for themselves and whoever is working with them, usually at a cost of $4-8. Again, not a significant amount of money for the occasional volunteer who is working a regular job. This program is limiting my ability to work a second job however, so 3 nights per week for a 16 week semester becomes a bit expensive (about $300 by my math). Would it really put the department out of money to provide a $20 per week duty dinner stipend or receipt reimbursement? This is my personal judgment call, and this is open to discussion.
There is a third flaw which may not have been approached by many at this point. The live-in students would be considered a step above volunteers and a step below career personnel in terms of responsibility of duty. They have the liberty to sign up as we wish for duty hours as long as we meet the requirement, however we are obliged to respond to all alarms when we are on duty. The assignment on any given shift is at the discretion of the shift A/C, and could feasibly be engine, truck, rescue, or even the medic at high volume times. I see a lot of "bitch work" being assigned to the live-ins as they are required to respond when signed up. This could even go as far as to include assigning them to the recently unstaffed PM16 during the weekday shifts to provide citywide BLS/3rd run coverage. I have no doubt that they will be used to fill in partial shifts for the furlough days for firefighter/EMT-B's on night shifts for both the medic and engine company.
I am sure there are other minor flaws which may be brought to my attention in the near future. Lastly, I would like to throw around a few numbers for your entertainment.
48 hours per week x 36 weeks (full academic year) x $10 per hour (conservative, Hart to Heart STARTS at $11.50).
This equals out to....$17,280 in labor. EDIT: Yes, I acknowledge that not all of the time will be spent doing "work".
A single room in a suite at SU = $5,130 The "Everything Plan" (most expensive) = $4,028
Room and board total at SU for full academic year = $9,158
http://www.salisbury.edu/cashiers/documents/TONY_AcademicYear2010-2011_Tuition_Fee_undergrad.pdf
Room and board deducted from estimated value of labor = $8,122
$8,122 (Room and board) divided by $10/h (labor) = 812.2 hours/36 weeks (academic year) = 22 hours per week of uncompensated volunteer time IF they paid for a single apartment and the "Everything Plan" at SU.
Since the room is inclusive with SFD, I will give it the value of a single apartment room at SU, $5,130 and assuming a $20/week duty meal stipend ($640/year) = $17,280-$5,770 = $11,510/ $10/h(labor) = 1151 hours/36 weeks = almost 32 hours of volunteer time per student they are gaining per week during the academic year (this is the ideal scenario for a student - room and meals while on duty)
Room only (what SFD offers) deducted from estimated value of labor = $12,150 <-- basically, how much free labor SFD is getting at 48h/week/academic year at $10/hour.
SFD has only had one prior SU live in. So in SFD's defense, there isn't much information to back this analysis one way or another, and only time will tell.
These opinions were formed from a compilation of information disseminated anonymously by members and non-members of SFD.
34 comments:
Your analysis is clear, concise, and your conclusions are almost completely accurate. The one flaw in your logic is presuming the SFD actually wants to attract SU Students. While in actuality, SFD has designed the program in this manner so they can say that they do offer a program without ever attracting anyone due to the economics of the plan.
The live-in program at the Salisbury Fire Department has never been successful and never will be as long as Hoppes and Gordy are in charge. They hate volunteers, especially college students. The "click" is alive and well at the Salisbury Fire Department thanks to Ireton and Smith.
I wonder what students who are carrying ful time jobs to pay for their education do? This sounds like another whiney bitch session. Definitely a career fire fighter material.
As a member of Salisbury FD. ( not sta 16 ) I have never seen this broken down like this. The person who did this is totally right. It needs to be fixed. this is definately NOT a deal at all.
you are going to be a volunteer.....that means you volunteer ur time to help your community or gain job experience. why do u think you're entitled to any money for meals or anything else. if you want dont want to spend your own money or are interested in making money then get a real job and dont volunteer anywhere.
10:40... I agree with you
10:40 it is a program offered to SU students "intended" to assist SU students with their housing needs in exchange for services. The point is that it is not a legitimate program when compared to a traditional market approach. If SFD is going to off benevolent opportunities to assist other members of the community (you know, the way the community coughs up money to support the SFD) then perhaps the "benevolent" program should, in fact, have some charitable economics included.
If the OP just wanted to be a volunteer, he could have just joined a local company as a volley, gotten an apartment in town at a reasonable rate, and still had time to work a part time job.
To my knowledge, college students also purchase a meal plan. Purchasing extra meals every week seems a bit unnecessary. Keep in mind, money is often tight for students.
Nothing whiney about this at all. It's called "analysis," which the knuckle draggers knocking this kid don't get.
Either you make a program viable or not. This student has made a facts-based argument. Debate him with facts, or shut up.
Fire service isn't for everyone. Students have enough load that a regular part-time job on top of a regular part-time job plus their primary reason for being here -- classes and homework -- is unrealistic. Granted, they can study a lot of the down time, but switching things around to where they can't attend classes, just plain dumb.
Surprised to see only 5 hours a week of study, though. I did more than that in middle school.
I am the writer of the article.
Just to make a few things clear...
I am not bashing to program or the department. The program is new and is still rough around the edges as far as what works best, and I am not blaming the department for this. The program was developed with good intent and I hope to see it improve for everyone over time.
As stated in the article, the people involved with the program are actively working to make it more attractive to college students.
The subject matter of the entire article is open to discussion and I welcome all opinions on the matter.
An apartment in town at a reasonable rate huh, good luck with that.
If you are not whining then why even post it here? Maybe to get sympathy from bleeding hearts like you 1:35. What a bunch of cry babies.
In trying to keep this relatively short I’ll make just a few comments on the student’s analogy. First I will say this person must not be much of a fireman to bitch about living in a firehouse for free i.e. room and board. If this person wanted to be a fireman having to be on call from your room four nights a week wouldn’t be a big deal. I mean it’s not like Salisbury runs 8,000 fire calls a year. The call volume of station 16 is around five calls a day leaving many hours to study and so forth. If you don’t like the system go live at SSU and let mommy and daddy pay for it. Obviously you don’t like the rules and they certainly aren’t going to change just for you. It sounds to me you are just like most of the “why” generation who likes to make their own rules to suit, well this is not the place.
If you don’t like to program go live somewhere else! SFD needs volunteers to “volunteer” their time such as the meaning of volunteer firefighters. I volunteer at station # 2 where doing a home response I easily put in 30 hours a week running calls all hours of the evening, night, and weekends. I am not a supporter of a live in program which is the reason I bought a home close to the fire station to make the first engine. My station makes out fine without members living in the fire station but if you don’t like that program please move on. We have enough problems in SFD without hearing your complaints when you aren’t even a member.
If you don't like the program, don't do it.
Engine 2 Baby...
Just incase you havent noticed your station would not make it out with out 222. Your Chief is a JOKE. You have officers who only show up for certain calls. And some that dont show up for none. Im also trying to figure out how you manage 30 hrs a week of volunteer time when most weeks you only run about 6-7 calls a week. That would average out to about 4.5 to 5 hrs per call wow ...
anonymous 5:58 & others, GROW UP!
This individual is simply sharing the facts as they know them through experience.
I laugh at you guys so hard when I see you A-Holes wearing tee shirts with Brotherhood on them and you're just so clueless!
Every one can clearly see through your comments that you know nothing about Brotherhood. ALL of your shirts should say, Boys With Their Toys and underneath that, Good Old Boys.
I said it years ago about the majority of you. You're like a pack of girls living with eachother. Bitching and complaining and stabbing eachother in the back every chance you get.
Mind you, there are quite a few of you that are honorable people but I gotta tell you, I would want nothing to do with that Fire Department and its leaders.
Thanks for the laugh today.
If 947 could pass the entrance exam, he could be a career whiner too, but he either couldn't or knows he can't so he attacks the career like the wuss he is.
Some fair points made by the author but he says that SFD doesn't offer much and I wonder how true that is. Perhaps 48/wk is a bit much but that's your own decision to make. Could be dropped a bit but he still appears to complain a lot. The idea of a meal stipend is out there. No one rides for free. You get your own room to yourself. No sharing in some bunk room. You get your cable TV free and don't have any heat or electric to pay as you would in an apt. Like one said, good luck finding your own place for much less than 800/ month (plus utilities ). And you would still have to buy food. And then there's the experience gained being in the house and handling calls. Its difficult to put value on that. As far as "bitch work", if you can't handle some of that, you have no business in the fire service as that is much of what firefighters do. Career guys do it their entire career and you want to imply that your too good for it? Or that you, as some snot nosed rookie would get more than your fair share?
I'm retired now but I know a few volunteers that ride with the career and none have ever complained about being treated unfairly. Each has said they get treated the same as the rest of the crew. As a new person, you better expect some bitch work.
Bottom line is it is your choice. If having a place to live in exchange for some duty hours is appealing to you, go for it and good luck to you! If not, pointing out what you consider a bunch of "flaws" on some blog site certainly wont help you get along with the career or volunteers should you decide to try it. Make your own choice as a man rather than attempt to disrespect the very program you may take advantage of! That's real classy. Good luck either way.
anonymous 6:12, that's right. Tell every one to not say a word and keep it quiet. NOTHING will change and NO ONE will be accountable.
Perhaps the leadership can, (for once) take some constructive criticism for once in their lives.
They conned the taxpayers with a BS program to ENCOURAGE new volunteers and they clearly never meant to do so in the first place.I for one am very glad this individual took them to task with honest and open information the general public didn't know before.
So good luck because the citizens AND Firefighters are tired of it. Hence NO volunteers at Station 16. Are you listening See, Gordy & Hoppes. YOU'VE BEEN BLOGGED!
You guys seem to be missing the main point. This is a college student who obviously wants to stay involved. Finances are a big deal when you are in college, those of you who attended should remember this. It is difficult, but definitely possible, to work a part time job while attending school. This takes away from the time they can work, so the fire dept could at least try to make this a little more enticing in terms of the student not having to pay for meals on duty.
This is some Western shore punk who thinks he is going to role into Salisbury and write his own rules. Hopefully he will be turned around at the door and sent back with his tail between his legs. What you read here is one of the problems in SFD today, those who think they are in charge with no time or experience under their belt. The fire service is a do your job don’t ask why business with a chain of command to be followed. If this kid doesn’t like the system as is don’t be a part of it very simple. And by the looks of his writing he is a bitch!
Is it really a college student making a point or a disgruntled vollie at 16 that doesnt like the live in program and wants to shoot it in the foot.
No sir Mr. Albero, you missed the point completely. Your entitled to your opinion and that's fine but no matter what this young person does, he's going to have to make his own decision. I clearly said maybe 48 was too much but if one expects to live somewhere, its going to cost something. So if its dropped back to say 36, is that to much? And he should still get free meals? Cmon now?! He's gonna have to buy food no matter where he lives and if he can get off with $4-5, that's pretty easy! What about the volunteers that ride but don't get to live there? I guess you don't want them to pay for their dinner either?
The point is that this young person has a choice to make. Its simple. He either agrees to live there with stipulations or not. He can live on campus or get his own place. If he wants to be a member but gripe about the requirements, then get some roomies, get a place, go to school, go to work, and volunteer when he can. What's the difference between that and what the other volunteers do who have full time jobs and raise families and still manage to take classes, train, and still have a life? And the SFD vols don't even have to do fundraising or much of their own maintenance like county stations! No sir, looks like this young man had an agenda and his choice of using this particular blog that, by your own admission, doesn't think much of the SFD, says a lot.
anonymous 9:48, Let me ask you a simple question. You guys have been in that building at least 2 years now. HOW'S THIS PROGRAM WORKING FOR YOU?
If YOU think it's a great opportunity, do share with everyone here just how many college students have successfully joined the SFD?
Enough Said!
8:59..he is clearly more educated than you are with your nasty name calling....BITCH:-)
This individual has done research comparing the program at the fire dept. with living on campus. I do NOT see where he is in no way bashing the fire department. He was just stating that it would be difficult to attend college full time, be on call for 48 hours a week and also to have a paying job that would be needed because the fire department only covers room and board. Some of you people are incredibly rude and obviously only picking out bits and pieces of the article. I don't see where the writer is wining. He is just sharing some research..he is obviously much more educated than some of you.
Mr Alberto, I haven't been in it at all! At least not to work there. And I understand what he's saying and respect his view. There is no argument. It is just as simple as it is. You do some research yourself. Call across the bay and see what their programs are. Their live ins don't get free food and they are expected to ride some significant hours. I'm all for him living there if he wants, but get real. Would you be so supportive if it were Gordy's son writing the comment. Keep it square for all. The department most assuredly has its issues but its still a darn good department that does a hell of a job answering the amount of calls it does with the amount of people it has. The fires get put out, the people get cut out of wrecks, and ems calls get handled with a great deal of success. I give him an A for his analysis. But no Matthews how much you and others complain, its STILL up to him to make an adult decision and live there or not.
Lets make your lengthy analysis a short story. College students are not welcome or wanted by our members.You are more problems than your worth. Mr Gordy came up with this idea to get $250 K from SU for the Tower Ladder. The members didnt want college students and still dont. Its been a flop from day one because of what you call Bitch Work. Your at the low end of the food chain and havent earned the right to question where your assigned. Give us anyone other than a college student for a Volunteer. Stick to classes, drinking and the whole college scene that you value so much.
Thank you, 10:17. Only thing I would change in your statement is in the last line..."some" to "most"!
12:10 ... yeah, you tell him - stick to getting an education, making yourself better, having a career, being a success, etc. you stupid college student.
In the SFD we're happy with our 10th grade educations, our natural light in foam cups and marrying our 2nd cousins. If you want to be all smart and stuff you better go back to the western shore where all that book learning and personal hygiene might matter. College B!tch
Orsonwells..you are right!! Funny that everyone assumes things about the writer..like they are from the Western shore which would make them a punk..they drink..they are a bitch..they have a mommy and daddy to pay for their education..they are whining..they are a cry baby..all from a well researched and thought out comparison..We can clearly see who the real cry babies, whiners, and bitches are. These people are hysterical. Unreal people..I have never seen a nastier bunch of people. Blessings to all..most of you need them:-)
8:43..ROFL..so true:-) Your post made my day
maybe putting some students in there to babysit the firemen wouldnt be such a bad idea, stop them from having the girls coming up there in the middle of the night fixing the hoses.
As I am reading this blog I am listening to my scanner and all I hear is Bill Gordy running unneccesarily on calls that he shouldn't be running on. He is not wanted or needed in that position. He is wasting gas and tax dollars. Mayor Ireton why are you letting him control you and your decision making. Quit being a pansy and get rid of him like you promised.
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