I'm a tax paying Salisbury property owner, and I've been following both sides of the heated debate on this blog regarding the firehouse for some time now. It seems there are several main points of contention in this debate.
1: What is the firehouse really worth as usable real estate? Some people against the City Council's transferring it to Palmer Gillis' group claim it's worth up to $ $500,000 to 800,000. Local commercial real estate people put it closer to $250,000 to $300,000 or so if sold at auction to highest bidder.
Who's right?
2: What duties and obligations does the city council have with respect to making use of the property? The intention to use the building for a community oriented purpose was announced well over a year ago, and the fully public selection process has been ongoing since then, culminating in the recent selection of a winner.
Does the city council have some sort of duty to toss out this community oriented use selection process, withdraw all use restrictions excepting zoning requirements, and sell it at auction to the highest bidder so the city can maximize it's revenue?
3: The 50 to 200 person banquet - meeting space use proposed claims not to be competing with any local restaurants except possibly the Fountains, some hotels, and the Civic Center.
Is this true? How many restaurants in the downtown area and elsewhere in Salisbury regularly host and provide meeting space for over a hundred people of one group?
We need answers to these questions.
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23 comments:
The city had the building appraised shortly after they moved the SFD over to the new fire house. It appraised at $785,000. It was at the end of the bubble. Even if it has lost value,it most certainly did not lose more than half it's value.
I can see why Gillis offered $100k for the building, he said he would spend $600k remodeling. Using the appraisal of $785k for borrowing purposes, he can walk into a bank and get the money needed to purchase and remodel without spending a dime of personal money.
Market Street Inn, Holiday Inn, Brew River, and Escape can all accomodate large events. The owners of this proposed enterprise will partner with UMES hospitality program, utilizing students as staff while keeping payroll to a minimum. Low employee overhead allows for lower menu pricing which cuts the throats of other locally owned businesses.
Don't be fooled, once this venture fails, and it will fail, Gillis will turn the entire building into apartments. He didn't get to where he is by being stupid.
Hey Mr. Gillis, its nice to see you read SBYNEWS...
Do you think this letter to editor will help your case to again, make a ton of money...
How much is enough money to have I wonder...
Walk away from this one big guy
The council can stop this process whenever they wish to. It seems to me that they would at least see what the public wants,so delay this until they get some answers. Why not have an open discussion meeting? Or put it on the ballot the next election for the public to voice their opnion. There are many people who get grants and set up public events to help such causes. If Palmer want to help the city,why not invest the time and effort into keeping this historic building a public building and set it up for what he calls non profit for library, or open air market? He is smart and would be an asset to have on a comittee that would get this done. If he is so involved with getting people downtown, why not??? This is our building, I am a tax payer also, my ansesters worked in this building for years. Gave their lives to fight for the city now we want to give it away??? What is an appraised cost? Don't forget there is a lot next to the river that goes with this property that is undeveloped. What is the cost of the waterfront property by itself? We don't know? Why can't someone find out without getting their palms greased? As for the UMES venture, We still to date have not heard what will be going on. Palmer, What are your plans for the building? Not guess or we don't know yet. What are your plans so we can make a decission. Is UMES in any way going to subdise this project? How does UMES get involved with the caterer and help run the functions with out being subsidised? If it looks fishy, and smells fishy, my guess is its fishy. Give the citizens something concrete to work with. I am interested to know. HELLO PALMER ARE YOU OUT THERE?????
Sounds like 3 council members are lining their pockets. Of course, we already know that. He has the money to line the pockets too!!!
So many people say the property is worth more (but haven't made recent offers), think SFD should retake the building for emergency use (they say it isn't necessary and won't happen), and argue against training students in a semi-private arena (cuz it's a minority school?). These anti-ists are going to wind up with another victory of which they can be proud - like the property across from the Civic Center.
Dove Pointe also caters to large groups as does Chef Fred's and Adams Ribs Lodge.
Additionally, just because the proposed space can accomodate large groups doesn't mean it won't cater to smaller groups, thereby competing with many of the restarants and hotels in town.
The proposed use cannot be justified from a marketplace view nor from a fiscal viewpoint. It isn't needed and isn't appropriate.
The city should keep this building. The city can rent this property to the general public for wedding receptions,etc. then the renter can hire a local licensed caterer or restaurant to provide the food. Hire enertainment. Hire a florists and many other local businesses and the city can make the money from renting the building. From what I hear the building needs maintenance (a cracked window payne).
From what I hear Mr. Gillis dont know what he wants to do with the building he just wants to purchase it. It is a great deal! He will figure it out later on what to do with it?
The building is part of our city and should stay part of our city. There are other ways of putting money in the city bank account.
Palmer won't lose money. It's all the other operators who'll suffer.
This isn't going to be a destination hospitality & entertainment facility like it says in Palmers proposal.
It's going to be Brad's Bar.
More drunks, more drugs, more fights. What a great downtown.
Wake up City Council!
Anonymous said...
Sounds like 3 council members are lining their pockets. Of course, we already know that. He has the money to line the pockets too!!!
2:34 PM
Don't forget the mayor getting his pockets lined, unless of course they are but buddies.
Anonymous said...
....Don't be fooled, once this venture fails, and it will fail, Gillis will turn the entire building into apartments. He didn't get to where he is by being stupid.
1:26 PM
Of course this is what is going to happen. It's called the old "Bait and Switch."
What I don't understand is Ireton is trying to do away with many of the slum rentals in this city and now he is going to give this property to a buddy and turn it into even more rental property.
Something else to keep in mind is the Escape Restaurant is on the verge of closing it's doors in the very near future(next month). Proof that the restaurant business isn't booming downtown so the firehouse will now become rental apartments. Thank you Jim Ireton for screwing us over again.
It's a firehouse and it needs to stay a fire house.
The firehouse belongs to the volunteers anyway not the slimy businessmen who are trying to get a freebie.
And don't forget one of the realtors who determined it's worth is Gillis's son Brad who is supposedly the one who has plans for it. Sound a little fishy?
If that crackerjack appraiser Bill McCain did the appraisal you can bet that he gave it a value of double of what it's worth!
I say give it back to the fire department volunteers. The space is much needed as the new fire station in falling apart with cracks and drafts.
I have a better idea. Keep the old firehouse and get rid of the new fire chief!!
Don't sell it, lease it. This property is a) historic, b) waterfront, and c) more useful and appropriately used as a community resource, like the kids' library, etc. Three stories with a full kitchen and office spaces in all three make it even more attractive as a public use building.
I'll buy it for $101,000 and turn it into my private residence. Will anyone downtown accept my bid...This property should be advertised and open to the bidding process to maintain transparency and fairness. What's your bid, Joe?
Re 1:26 - Calculating value off a Ralph Krum appraisal done during the height of the market, and then saying "it can't be worth less than half that today" is non-sensical. It assumes that (1) Ralph Krum is a competent commercial appraiser, and (2) that no commercial properties have declined more than 50% in value since the height of the market.
Let me assure you both those assumptions are categorically false.
Per the letter to the editor this selection process has apparently been ongoing in a fully transparent and open fashion for over a year now. Even the newspaper ran articles on the specifics of the proposals when they were competing. Why are so many people commenting on this blog acting like this process and this decision is some big secret or surprise?
Honestly! You guys are like the lazy kids in a class who never pay attention, then wait until the final exam to complain that the selected test material is all a big unfair surprise.
How much credibility do you complainers think you have by claiming (insanely at this point) this selected use is some big, underhanded surprise when it's been right in front of you? Do you realize how absolutely silly you sound when you say this?
Re "And don't forget one of the realtors who determined it's worth is Gillis's son Brad who is supposedly the one who has plans for it. Sound a little fishy?"
The initial "worth" was determined by an appraisal paid for by the city. No realtors, Brad Gillis or otherwise, had anything to do with formally establishing or determining a value of the property for the city.
Anything else you don't want people to "forget"? Bigfoot lives? Aliens walk among us?
3:21- very well said and let's not forget little Gillis has been out and about bragging quite a bit about this endeavor.
8:06 AM - Very well said and let's not forget little Gillis has been out and about bragging quite a bit about this endeavor.
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This is all true! I saw Brad "surfer boy" Gillis at Escape a few weeks ago, and he began telling me (practically boasting) what a great project the Firehouse was, and how it would benefit the community.
I told him to stop right there, and asked him what the hell he thought he was doing. "Ummm... talking about the firehouse project?" was his lame answer.
I told him "YOU ARE PROMOTING THIS PROJECT IN A PUBLIC PLACE TO THE CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTY! A PROJECT YOU AND YOUR FATHER ARE INVOLVED WITH!" (yes I admit I raised my voice).
He didn't deny it! He had the gall to look at me like I was the one being inappropriate. He actually seemed pleased with himself, but then he always does. It was practically mind rape.
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