DelMarVa's Premier Source for News, Opinion, Analysis, and Human Interest Contact Publisher Joe Albero at alberobutzo@wmconnect.com or 410-430-5349
DelMarVa's Premier Source for News, Opinion, Analysis, and Human Interest Contact Publisher Joe Albero at alberobutzo@wmconnect.com or 410-430-5349
37 comments:
Right.
Not a shred of credible evidence to support it's cause, you have to believe it because it says it's "totes legit", and anyone who doesn't is bad.
Sure. That doesn't sound like a con at all.
Ask yourself, were it any other holy book, or any other person making the claim, would you believe it?
Probably not. There are other holy texts making the same claims, but you don't accept them?
The time to believe something is when it can be demonstrated to be true, not the other way around.
Besides, Christians have been freaking out that the end times are here for forever... and wouldn't you know it, no end times. Why, you know it's made up stories... just read Matthew 24:25-34, or Mark 13:26-30, or Luke 21:27-32 and let Jesus himself tell you that his return will be "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place"... and I'm fairly certain that generation died off a long time ago.
But it's not just you... the writers of the Bible thought THEY were in the end times. Passages that show that:
Hebrews 1:1-2
1 Corinthians 10:11
Hebrews 10:24-25
1 John 2:18
1 Corinthians 7:27,29-31
1 Peter 4:7
Once you review the Bible with the same scrutiny you would any other holy text, the obvious problems with it are VERY obvious.
We are way past this... And lets not forget to add how stupid people have become...
2 Timothy 4:3-4 KJV
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; [4] And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
i like the preceding chapter better:
2 Timothy 3 New International Version (NIV)
3 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.
Isaiah 5:21
Wow your hate for God is pretty extreme. (October 4, 2018 at 11:03 AM) Its a shame, what was it? Was it he let you down? Did he not answer your prayers? Or was it you decided that it was all stupid and the Devil makes more sense. Its okay, I clearly understand your frustrations.
If you are wrong, much will happen when you die. If you are right, nothing will. Either way we will all find out in the end. I hope you change your mind and really do better investigation on the bible and what can be and what cant be proven.
Oh Im sure your probably a teacher, or professor in college and will next attack my grammar, thats okay also.
God Bless You.
11:03 spoken like a true Democrap ..... ALL LIES. Go peddle your baloon juice somewhere else.
God is not a liar, but every man is...Thank God for His Word. Millions of people through the ages, including me and all my family, have depended, cherished and been blessed by the Word of God. He tells us there will always be scoffers and mockers; so none of the negative comments surprise me.
I can only say IF you leave earth without Jesus Christ in your heart for the forgiveness of sins, you lose.
October 4, 2018 at 11:51 AM - wow you portray yourself as a christian but your words don't support that claim. All he did was point out inconsistencies in the bible. He never once said he hated God. And you didn't offer any substance to challenge his claim.
@ October 4, 2018 at 11:51 AM
Where did you get the notion that I hate your God? Pretty silly to hate something that doesn't exist. I think the character, "God", as described in the bible is a psychopath and a moral thug, is completely immoral and most humans everywhere would behave with more moral integrity that that character would. But hate? That makes no sense.
Also, I don't believe in God so ipso facto I don't believe in your Devil either, so it's really unclear where you were going with that one?
As far as prayers are concerned, they have been shown demonstrably to not have any effect in every credible study. To be fair, if you believe the doctrine... and accept that God has a plan and knows the future, any prayer sent his way would have no effect. It's simple logic. If the answer to prayer is one of 3 answers -yes,no,or wait- then praying to your God will yield the exact same outcome as praying to a jug of milk.
I don't understand your invoking of Pascals wager either, what a terrible example. Fake it till you make it? Especially when, according to your holy text, God will judge your heart? He will know you are a liar. You can't pretend to believe what you don't. Plus if the best you have is a mafia thug protection racket argument... you might wanna rethink which team the "good guys" are on? Better pay your protection money or else? See? Immoral Thug.
Who punishes eternally for finite crimes? Would you torture, as you describe, anyone? Your own children? Of course you wouldn't, because you are more moral than the God of the Bible.
Finally, I am always open and ready to be proven wrong. If I have missed something, please correct it.
@ October 4, 2018 at 12:27 PM
Really? That is the best we can do? Not address the points and arguments, but to just hurl insults and ad hominems? I am a Conservative, by the way, so do us all a favor and try harder because you embarrass ALL of us when you respond that way.
It's embarrassing. It makes it look like you don't understand the argument, you can't competently discuss complex topics, and quite frankly makes you look stupid.
And then you fly the "not democrat" flag. Please stop. It reflects poorly on the rest of us who are actually trying.
12:51
Keep digging
@ October 4, 2018 at 11:43 AM
Imagine that. The book want to discredit it's dissenters. Those who would point out it's faults and inconsistencies.
Still sounds like a con job to me. Once you read it with the scrutiny you would apply to any other holy text other than your own, the obvious flaws and faults with it are VERY obvious.
Try these verses on for size and tell me what you think:
1 Peter 2:18
Exodus 21: 7-8
II Kings 6:28-29
Start with those. If you would like more atrocities listed, I would be happy to be obliged. Just let me know.
And you see what happens when you DO NOT FOLLOW THE WORD OF GOD, RIGHT? Probably NOT!
Wow and on National Vodka Day too!
Only 1 day until TGIF, but I started EARLY with the great weather!!!
Safe LONG weekend for all!
2:37 pm I'll not cast pearls before swine...
Wow! That's a lot of typing for someone WHO DOESNT BELIEVE IN GOD.I know if I am ABSOLUTELY SURE that something DOESNT EXIST,(LIKE FAIRYS,LEPRECHAUNS and SANTA CLAUS) I wouldn't be wasting my time trying to convince somebody that they ARE NOT REAL since I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT THEY ARENT REAL. You would just be ignoring ALL OF US WHO BELIEVE in something that DOES NOT EXIST, right?? You must have alot of time on your hands.
@ October 5, 2018 at 12:47 AM
Valid concerns. The reason you hear voices like mine is that people aren't forming legislation, domestic and foreign policies, starting and stopping wars, shoehorning their beliefs into school programs in the name of fairies, leprechauns, or Santa Claus.
Religious folks ARE. Were religion not shoehorning itself into everything, and not trying to force everyone to follow it, you would never have to worry about hearing opposition to it.
Alas, religious folks aren't happy just following their religion, they seem compelled to force it on everyone else.
When this isn't the case, then I'll have nothing to talk about... then you won't hear anything from me.
I hope that helps you to understand.
What is curious, is that everyone seems to keep just attacking me, and telling me I should just keep my mouth shut... yet no one addresses the points I make. I find this to be very telling.
@ October 4, 2018 at 7:31 PM
I understand that this quote makes you feel empowered, but to me it looks like you've just stuck your fingers in your ears and exclaimed "nan nanny boo boo, I cannot hear you".
It is one more reason that I find the entire proposition to be a con job.
Were it legitimate, and true, it would not need to shy away from scrutiny or review.
It would not need to portray those who are critical as "swine"... and before you can call your point of view "pearls", it needs to be demonstrated as so. So far.... I have found it wanting.
I feel like this is actually further evidence to demonstrate the entire proposition is a con job.
Well said 11:03am. Couldn't agree more.
1:26pm....rock on with the logic brother!! I am in your corner cheering you on.
Hey 11:03 , you are one sick individual , get on your knees and pray. You too 7:13 . Go and support the democrats and stone the right wing people .
This is an ebb and flow human condition, but as each tide approaches, it is incrementally worse.
7:13am here...fyi I'm a far right conservative, former Marine, and Gulf 1 vet. It's you that should be on your knees thanking vets. Just because we dont ascribe to your delusions, we are no less conservative or any less moral than you.
Look back to the 1850s and early 1860s and see how the federal government broke down then. Lots of similarities
Blah Blah Blah. Drink up and smokem' if you gottem!
This "show" is very entertaining!
There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.
Must be you 11:03
Delusions?
The atheist doesn't get it.
Scrutinize all day long.
Explain why 12 men walked the known world to tell the same story about the miracles they saw occur. Did they die for a story that was a lie, a fake, a delusion? Not for profit or fame, that's for sure.
I doubt that YOU would stick to ANY lie if they said "recant or we torture and kill you".
They died horribly for that "story".
Explain that.
When you do, I'll explain how a bunch of molecules decided to get together and form a LIVING THING. Then, miracle of miracles, they also found a way to make the most complicated chemical structure ever known --- the DNA strand. And, somehow, developed consciousness. WOW!
THEN, I'll explain how everything we can see (out to about 14 BILLION
lights years away!!) came from a small dot too small to see.
We all have our delusions, huh?
@ October 8, 2018 at 12:04 PM Imclain
Whats interesting to note is that there is scant evidence for these so called 12 men.... yet we know for sure without question that people are blowing themselves up in the name of Islam and Allah.
For a moment let me grant you those 12 men's existence. We know that today people will be tortured and killed for their religion AND people kill themselves for their religion.
Does that mean, according to your line of reasoning, that these religions must also be true?
That was really rhetorical.. in fact the answer is no, it does not.
So this is not compelling in the least.
And sorry, while I am an atheist, I am not a biologist, nor an expert in the cosmos, evolution or abiogenesis. I suggest you discuss that with the experts.
I KNEW you'd be back.
Your "scant evidence" line reveals your total, absolute ignorance and highlights your inability to accept facts -- FACTS --- that don't fit your arrogant and insulting narrative.
Those 12 men had their deaths DOCUMENTED in official government records of the time. Scant evidence, my ass.
Being tortured and killed for your religion is a little bit (sarcasm) different than walking across the known world, telling THE SAME STORY, and being killed for your STORY, not your religion.
The kings and dictators at the time wanted NO ONE to be held above them and killed anyone that said otherwise.
You confuse your arguments.
I asked you to explain the 12 disciples and their actions. Why did they do what they did???
YOU discount them and almost call them non-existent. Because you could not explain why 12 men risked torture and death to tell the world they saw a man raise the dead and come back from the dead to prove he had power over all things. Among MANY miraculous things.
When you CAN explain why they did that, I'll give you the secret to the Big Bang.
The Big Bang. Evolution. There are more holes (some VERY serious ones, too) in those theories than a termite infested house. Yet, Christians are somehow ignorant, or stupid, or mislead???
You are what the Bible calls "willfully ignorant". And you will be very sorry for that.
I give you John 8:24. Matthew 7:26,27. Matthew 10:32,33.
Explain the disciples.
@ October 9, 2018 at 8:29 PM Imclain
I thought I addressed your points in my first rebuttal of the disciples, but may be I not clear enough.
The form of your argument is as follows: The religion must be true because some men who followed said religion were willing to be persecuted, tortured, and die for it because they believe it true.
My rebuttal: This argument is demonstrably false, because as there is little evidence for the men in this story, we can demonstrate people today who undergo the same persecution and torment, and even kill themselves in the name of their religion. Ergo, unless all of these people are only following the same religion, this is not a compelling argument for your case.
I hope that makes it easier. Quid pro quo: explain Muslim Suicide Bombers.
Again, I am an atheist, but not an expert in the areas of science you keep referencing for some reason.. I suggest you take up those questions with someone that is an expert in those fields.
@ October 9, 2018 at 8:29 PM Imclain
I did some digging into your claims... in fact the ONLY writing of the apostles deaths outside of the Bible or other Church writings, is a mention of James death by Titus Flavius Josephus.
It can also be pointed out that Josephus did not have this information first hand, as he was born 4 years after when the Biblical story of the Crucifixion was said to have taken place. He was writing and reporting on repeated Church stories. Not exceptionally convincing in my book.
Outside of the Bible and Church writings, there is as demonstrated, scant evidence for the lives of these 12 men.
May I also suggest, your "you will be very sorry for that" threat really does not come off so well. You may wanna rethink that. To me, it sounds like a mafia thug protection racket. Not a very compelling argument... and certainly makes for a compelling argument that most people are more moral that your God is.
And we can play the Bible verse game all day.
1 Samuel 15:3
Psalms 135:8 & 136:10
Psalms 137:9
"...little evidence..."
that description is all anyone needs to know about your supposed knowledge of the disciples.
Secondly, and more importantly, the disciple weren't FOLLOWING any religion. They merely related what they saw and were so astounded by those events, they were COMPELLED to tell about it.
You are so committed to denigrating religion, you refuse to acknowledge ANY facts that refute your position.
Again, if you will research, you WILL find much evidence of the disciples in government records and local histories.
But since you wouldn't believe in Christ even if he appeared and slapped you across the face, you will have to wait for that to actually happen.
And it will.
@ October 9, 2018 at 8:29 PM Imclain
You simply asserting that there is "much" evidence in government records and local history does not make it so, I am happy to be wrong, please, cite sources. As I did search for exactly what you asserted, and all that was found was James by Josephus.
So THIS form of argument is if they were COMPELLED to tell about it, then it must be true...
So which is right? The Mormon Missionary or the Jehovas Witness knocking on my door... or the Muslim Mosques going up around the world because these people felt COMPELLED to do so to spread the word of their gospel. There is nothing interesting or special about these apostles when compared to other religious icons in other holy texts... or even religious folks today for that matter. Nothing interesting or special at all.
I have a suggestion, take some time and think about the form of your arguments. I am not bent on denigrating religion, I am however interested in truth... ESPECIALLY when world leaders are informed and make decisions based on unfounded religious doctrines.
I understand that you believe it, but you have so far not done a really great job of conveying why anyone else should. You exclaim "and it will", but so far there is no reason to believe that.
Were Vishnu to materialize to you and smack you across the face, would you denounce your Christianity?
All it would take for me to accept the claims of any religion is good, credible, demonstrable evidence. My position is that I am unconvinced by the claims of theists, theists have not met their burden of proof. So demonstrable evidence, or facts as it were, would not refute Atheism, they would validate theism.
When presented with arguments I actually DO research them... just as I did your claims... and I found them to be wanting. So I'm all ears.
Read "The Letter to the Corithians" written by Clement of Rome about 80-90 years after Christ was crucified.
Many Romans wrote about the disciples and their preaching and their deaths.
Tertullian also wrote about the martyrdom of a couple of the disciples.
You lack understanding of faith, confusing it with the scientific method. And no other deity has ever predicted his own death, told everyone who would kill him, and the told everyone He would rise again from the dead.
Not one.
Except Him.
Your atheism affects me in no way. Hiding behind the need for "truth" is disingenuous. You are less interested in the truth than proving how perfectly analytical you can be.
I get the feeling that NOTHING could convince you that you are wrong.
If you are right, no problem.
If you are wrong, well, you'll have a BIG problem.
And besides, who thinks the Christian philosophy of love, hope, charity, selflessness, and forgiveness is somehow wrong or bad or something to ridicule?
You.
Reply if you wish....you aren't changing anyone's mind and I really don't care to hear more from you.
If you remember, a while back, you admitted your intellect was inferior. Still true, anonymous boy. I'd respect you more if you didn't hide behind a curtain, talking BS.
@ October 10, 2018 at 9:45 PM
The Letter to the Corinthians by "Clement" - roughly 90 BC - yet AGAIN not first hand documentation - written by what historians believe to be "an anonymous writer from the church", and this person would have been like a pope at that time. This is a CHURCH letter, not some government record. Imagine that, someone from the church perpetuating the stories that it subscribes to?T his is not some sort of impartial historical record as you have portrayed it. It was written roughly the same time as the Book of Revelations.
So, yet again. Scant evidence.
Tertullian - Christain Author and Christian Apologist - Once AGAIN not first hand information nor an unbiased or government source - alive 155 AD - 240 AD.
A Christain Apologist writing about Church stories.
So, yet again. Scant evidence.
Faith: While some say it is the reason given for believing something without evidence, making faith the least reliable method of discerning truth, since anything can be believed by faith... even contradictory things.
I view "faith" as most theologians use the term as "a reasonable confidence". You may not be able to demonstrate or justify it to others, but it is not considered by most to be "blind"... and would be better served to just be called "a reasonable confidence".
Please, though, I don't want to put words in your mouth, so correct me if I'm wrong.
What never ceases to amaze me, Imclain, is your absolute vitriol, and what seems to be, inability to have a civil discussion without resorting to taunts and insults. I know many Christians, and that doesn't seem very Christ like.
I think that Love, hope, charity, selflessness, and forgiveness are important and good things, and we don't need a deity for these things. If Aliens landed and showed us they created the earth... would you abandon these things? Of course not, because I think you are better than that. I think most humans are.
So, you've offered up your points, I think I have successfully refuted them for what you claimed they would be... and I am still open if you would like to try again. My position stands. Scant evidence outside of the Bible and Church writings.
@ October 10, 2018 at 9:45 PM Imclain continued
Dying and rising deities was actually fairly common religious motif, especially in Ancient Near Eastern Mythologies. Osirus, Tammuz, Adonis and Attis, and Dionysus are commonly cited as such, and many of these predate the Christian Christ.
In fact many mythicists argue that Christianity borrowed many of its fables and stories from previous religious motifs... as was a common practice in the day. Just as the concept of the Trinity - The Egyptian Trinity of Amun, Ra, & Ptah... or the Babylonian Trinity of Ninki, Enki, & Marduk. Of course there is also the Hindu Trinity.... predating Christianity.
Take note, you question my use of anonymity, yet you also use the same anonymity. I could simply just make up a name too, would it change any of my points? Do you use a verified login, post your full name? No, you do not. You remain as anonymous as I do.
Who I may or may not be, and who you may or may not be impacts not one iota to the points made, nor to the facts presented.
I know first hand that I am a minority in this society, and certainly fear retribution from a tyrannical majority. I know first hand what can happen when one is exposed as an atheist in this culture, so, I appreciate the opportunity to participate in civil discourse without that said threat. Kudos to this site for that opportunity.
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