This letter is in response to the negative feedback of my Formal Filing M&T Complaint posted on this site March 11th, 2010. Below is a link, which should be read before demeaning me! I believe there are several important banking issues that were not clearly understood by some people. It appears the bank automatically enrolled me in overdraft protection, without my consent or knowledge. I am not a banker therefore had no knowledge of how or why this was happening to my account. M&T Bank never gave me any answers or direction as to how I could stop them from doing this to my account. The bank is suppose to deny (and charge for) any transaction that would be non-sufficient funds. I am NOT disputing this. What the bank is doing is holding deposits, “re-ordering” debits and charging accounts unlawfully. I would NOT be wasting my time if this were my fault. The public needs to be made aware of what is going on. Maybe its not happening to the people who responded negatively to my letter, but it may be happening to someone you care about.
I may write one or two checks once a month. I normally use my Debit/ATM card to pay bills online, after making sure I have the funds available. I use M&T’s online banking on a very regular basis. I have print outs and other supporting documents which clearly show how the bank manipulates my checking account. M&T Bank “re-orders” my transactions and intentionally deducts any and all debits prior to crediting the account for any deposits, cash or otherwise.
The bank is legally suppose to decline any charges which funds are not available. They do not do this in order to incur excessive fees. The bank is the one who makes the funds unavailable.
I make a weekly deposit to my checking account. Sometimes this is available immediately, other weeks, the deposit is held for days at a time while the bank charges me insufficient fees even though the money is indeed in the bank.
What the bank is doing is unlawful, hence the Civil Class Action Lawsuit against them! I am not making this up. I am not ashamed to say, the people most affected by these unlawful practices are the lower-income people. The people that live pay check to pay check. I go to work every single day. I have not missed a day from work (or called out etc. ) in over twelve years. I do not live off the state in any way. I work hard for my money and should be allowed to be accountable for it. M&T Bank has taken this authority away from me and I want it back.
Please, please, please take the time to read the Complaint so that you can better understand!!!! Respectfully, Rose Johnson
Read a copy of the Class Action Complaint in the M&T Bank abusive overdraft fees class action.
DelMarVa's Premier Source for News, Opinion, Analysis, and Human Interest Contact Publisher Joe Albero at alberobutzo@wmconnect.com or 410-430-5349
totally with you and understand Rose...I wish you the best of luck!
ReplyDeleteI say "Rose, Go for it"! PNC Bank is the same way! If you direct deposit on friday you can't use the money til Saturday and in the meantime everything you write a check for or ATM activity you get charged an overdraft fee for and they just keep letting you use your ATM card without your knowing your getting charged...I paid $38.69 for a $1.69 coffee one time for that reason and I do not bank at PNC anymore because of it!! Shore Bank is the way to go!
ReplyDeletewhats the benefit of shore bank??
ReplyDeleteI'm afraid that I cannot identify with your problem, Rose, but I support your seeking some sort of redress. I have been a customer of M & T (or its predecessors beginning with Salisbury National), and I cannot recall ever having a problem. I am treasurer for a club that uses PNC; likewise, I have never experienced an issue with that bank.
ReplyDeleteM&T Bank "lost" $9,000 of mine once and I didn't even get a toaster. They are terrible.
ReplyDeleteWhen you opened your account, the bank has to give you papers explaining the account (federally required). These explain to you payment policies,overdraft policies, etc. As far as "re-ordering" your checks--that is done uniformally within your bank--it does not change so that they can charge you the most fees--regulators make sure of this. Most banks do post the largest amount first. Bottom line is don't spend more than you have and you won't have to worry about it.
ReplyDeleteStop dealing with these big Corp. banks. They don't care about you one bit.
ReplyDeleteThat's why I only deal with a local bank where the ones running it really know there customers. Not someone up in New York city.
I stopped using M&T way back when they were 1st nat. bank. Had probelms with them then too.
3:07 I switched to Shore Bank last year. The number one reason: good, old fashioned "customer service". When you call them, you get a "real person" answering in a polite and professional manner. If you need a Vice President, all they ask you is: "may I ask whose calling, please?" instead of something less professional. They have a willingness to work out QUICKLY any problems that come up. They update their on-line account system constantly so you get "real time" verification of your transactions. They are conveniently located throughout Wicomico County. The actual act like they care about you and are glad to have you as a customer. You know something else? They actually smile a lot too. I wish I would have switched years ago.
ReplyDeletewhere do you go to read this Rose. There is no link!
ReplyDeleteWhere is the link you mention Joe?
ReplyDeleteThe link of the Civil Class Action is bank-overdraft.com
ReplyDeleteM&T did the same thing to me. They lost my overnight deposit check and I did not notice it never posting. I wrote several checks five days later.They reordered checks so that I overdrafted six times in one day. When I met with the branch manager she was smug and unpleasant. She refused to consider that maybe the bank could have made a mistake. She claimed there was no overnight deposit. She informed me that if I carried this any further I may be refused service from this bank and it would be difficult to get another checking account anywhere with this on my record.I asked to be transfered to another branch as my main bank so I would not have to deal with that person ever again. That request was never honored.There is a time lag of up to two days for it showing up online. I have had things show up then disappear, then come back on another date.Sometimes it shows up right away then maybe sometimes two days later. It is not dependable and cost us money and makes the bank money if you learn to trust it.You can keep a record in your checkbook and they will still not admit fault and will not look at your figures. I am a small guy but all this multiplied does add up to a lot of free money for the bank.I used to have overdraft protection at 1st National but it was too good and they did away with that program and have one now they charge a preimium for. I have been with them 35 years
ReplyDelete3:28 the same can be said about Hebron Savings Bank. I can't add more to a decription like you but it sounded like my bank you were talking about. The point is that the "local" banks will give you service that the big banks won't. Period.
ReplyDeletebank-overdraft.com on the left you need to double left click on the Court Forms. This is a great site and is about many of the banks. This has been happening for along time, I say lets do something about it and get reimbursed. Our money is used to bail them out and they screw up over and over again.
ReplyDeleteWhy don't you just switch banks... or better yet don't spend money if the money isn't in the account. You don't need a college education to know that.
ReplyDeleteI don't understand how you can be charged overdraft fees when you have overdraft protection unless you overdraw more often than the protection allows.
ReplyDeleteI have used overdraft protection for years. It is a good thing and, without it, the bank will charge a penalty fee when funds go negative. When you overdraw, a loan is automatically made to cover the overdraft. I believe most banks hold deposited payroll checks 24 hours. Other checks even longer. Debits and online bill pay are immediate. If you use online banking, don't you notice that your deposited check isn't posted to your account yet? Why would you do a debit if it isn't? When you write a check, don't you deduct that amount from your records to reflect that lack of funds? You can't write a check and hope that it doesn't get posted before you make a withdraw.
I would suggest direct deposit of your paycheck and sit down with someone who could show you the proper way of keeping records and knowing at all times what your available balance is. You don't need to be a banker to understand how to do this.
I bank with Farmers Bank of Willards after many years of dealing with the "Big banks".And I'll never take my money anywhere else.
ReplyDeleteThis too has happened to me. My online account would show a over draft fee then a deposit for the same exact date but the deposit was made days before! I have gone into the bank before and they have credited me 1/2 of the fees back but say they can only do that once! It got so bad that I would go threw drive threw cash check then hand them the cash back with a dep slip!
ReplyDeleteIts a lot of work to switch banks when you have bills that automatically come out of account. Also I pay bill on line threw their bill pay and that too a lot of time to set up! There is some good features about M&T but the overdraft crap is very annoying
ReplyDeleteI work at a bank (not M&T) and this is how it goes. We legally inform you about overdraft protection in the forms we give you and it not illegal. The U.S. Government just made it so in July we have to verbally ask you about overdraft protection. We are not legally obligated to decline transactions you don't have money for because of the overdraft protection. You are legally not supposed to use money you don't have (its the same thing as bouncing a check except we make it so you don't get sued for NSF). Also, if you are stuck somewhere and you need towing and you don't have enough in your account to pay for it and the bank declines the transaction, you'll be crying for that thing called overdraft protection. Also, the ONLY way to prove a banking error is if you keep a WRITTEN LEDGER. It is the only way. Banks only process transactions when the vendor processes them first. It is NOT a lag with the bank it is a lag with the vendor dealing with his bank. For example, paying at the pump takes several days to process and the money won't be taken out for usually 3 business days, but if you don't write down and go to spend what you have online you will overdraft. That is your own fault. Banks will not refund fees if you don't track your balance as it goes along. Sorry, but you won't win your lawsuit.
ReplyDeleteStick it to them, I get the same thing from BOA Bank of America, So its not just M and T doing it...
ReplyDeleteYou people are idiots. How do you not know how much money you have? It's common knowledge when you overdraft your account you get charged. Very easy, don't overdraft your account.
ReplyDeleteWho the heck buys a $1.69 card on a debit card??? You do realize that it costs $0.17-0.35 per transaction plus 1.6%-4.1% discount fee for a merchant to accept your card?? CASH, you should have a minimum of $20 on you all times for these types of things. I personally would never consider leaving the house without $100 in my wallet just in case something happens.
It's the banks fought because they are smart enough to make money off idiots who write bad checks? Learn basic math skills and take responsibility for your actions.
ReplyDeleteTake my advice and switch to The Bank of Delmarva asap! I had the same problem with M&T and with 1st National before they changed names. Their employees are pompous and rude and feel they are above others for some reason only obvious to themselves. Apparently they never heard of good customer service.
ReplyDeleteWhat happened to personal resposibility. Don't spend money you don't have.
ReplyDeleteI agree that the bank's practices are despicable, but their practices a) are well-known and b) are clearly spelled out in the cardholder agreement.
ReplyDeleteAgain, these people aren't understanding the problem. I guess they are the ones with more money than brains! Good going after these crooks, next the insurance industry, then the politicians who allow all this crap to begin with.
ReplyDeleteBest to you and thanks for sharing.
Russ
I have 4 letters for you folks... S E C U. Check into it...
ReplyDeleteTo the people leaving negative feedback, I don't judge you for your negative comments because you have not comprehended yet exactly what the banks are doing. I don't have $100 a week to keep in my pocket. Nor do I bounce checks or use the ATM card when I don't have the money in my account. The BANK manipulates my account in order to cause a domino effect. I don't want the bank to authorize anything if the funds aren't available. I don't ask them to, I don't expect them to. It's more like the mob extorting my money from me. Rose Johnson
ReplyDeleteI am confused! If you are enrolled in overdraft protection HOW IN THE HELL do you have any fees with overdraft??????? You are so confused on the overdraft protection plan it BLOWS my mind. They cover any amount! Why are you MISLEADING us!! I have trouble finding you to be truthful!!
ReplyDeleteI have been with Bank of Delmarva since 1982 when they were Bank of Delmar and I wouldn't leave them for anything. How many banks can you go to and the teller knows you by name? How many banks can you call when out of state to get a problem straightened out and have it done immediately on a Friday night? Bank of Delmarva is the only one I know of.
ReplyDeleteI agree with TDP. This is not a question of how much money you have but how you manage it.
ReplyDeleteANY bank will "authorize" a fee on your account if there are no funds to cover your transactions. This has nothing to do with your personal financial abilities.
Mob? I don't think so....
I have been with M&T and its' predecessor and its' predecessor for many years. During that time I have had nary a problem. If it wasn't for the work of their staff, my wife and I would still be going round and round with the IRS about an estimated Tax payment lost by a bank in the mid-west. Our four direct deposits show up like clockwork and the internet banking works as advertised.
ReplyDeleteOver 20 years ago a banker told me that fees were the new revenue stream for banks as they couldn't make it on loans alone.
I too, despise and abhor the deceitful practices and the unjustified upper level salaries of the big financial institutions but be fair and "buyer beware".
I went to The M&T bank with a printout of my online account. I had the Branch Officer print out one and I showed them how it changed when they reposted checks so they would bounce, I ask the Clerk to sign the printout. She took it in a back office and I didn't see her for a few minutes. I sat there . She went on to wait on others. I went up to her and complained that she left me here waiting for her as she went on to service others. She called someone on the phone. A lady came out from the back and said they would send me something in the mail. I never did hear from them about it again. I had to pay.
ReplyDeletethe overdraft protection is added to your account automatically and they probably told you about it when you opened theou account and you forgot. When you write a check for $200 and your balance is $100 the bank will pay the check abd charge you a NSF fee. The difference is without it they will return the check, charge u the fee and you will also be charged by the store you wrote the check to.
ReplyDeleteBottom line is would you rather pay 1 or 2 fees? If you were to write down your transactions in the register and keep a balance you will never have a problem.
If you don't want the bank to authorize any transactions if the money isn't there, THEN DON'T MAKE THE TRANSACTIONS! IT'S REALLY NOT THAT HARD!
ReplyDeleteLocal banks certainly can and do provide that personal service we all appreciate.
ReplyDeleteMy experience with large state or multi-state banks is not finding fault with the people, but the corporate philosphy and structure does not provide them the flexibility that a local bank can.
My experience with all the local banks has been great, but continuing to lead in best service and response is the Farmers' Bank of Willards. My only critisism is that it would be nice for them to have a branch on the north end of Salisbury.
Rose, I have no sympathy for you. I will be the first to say that I have overdrafted my account numerous times. Everytime it was my fault. I have paid hundreds of dollars in overdraft fees and everytime it was my fault.
ReplyDeleteAll of this information is given to you when you open your account. Read the disclosures in the CONTRACT you signed when you opened the account & with the card you received. All of these things along with funds availability are stated.
If you make a deposit after 2 pm (end of business for M&T Bank) expect that it will not be available until the NEXT BUSINESS DAY. So YES this means if you deposit a check on Friday at 3 pm it WILL NOT be available until Monday. If you need the money before that CASH IT and put what you don't need right away into the account & keep the rest.
Then use a check register to keep track of your transactions. The majority of banks "re order". It's an accounting process putting the larger transactions for that day first. Like another poster commented, a lot of the lag time has to do with the vendor taking the money from your account. When you swipe your debit card an authorization hold is put on your account for the amount the vendor is charging you. In a perfect world the hold stays on long enough for the vendor to actually debit your account. Sometimes that vendor takes too long and the hold has fallen off your account which makes those funds available to you again. Which is where a REGISTER comes into play. If you account for that money in your register you will know the amount that is actually available to you. The ATM, automated line & web banking ARE NOT always accurate.
Be accountable for yourself.
8:46am Thanks for educating Rose and some of the others. There are alot of comments that haven't made any sense. Either they haven't asked their bank about their misconceptions or they have and didn't understand. I say ask again!! Banks have so many regulations, if it is illegal, it wouldn't be done. Rose thinks her bank is approving debit card transactions even when she doesn't have the money. Maybe she did when she was doing the transaction, but not after the couple of checks cleared that she claims she writes once a month.
ReplyDeleteBut some of these stories are just unbelievable.....ie. phanton $5 fee??? what in the world??? People- please- ask your banker these questions.
When you take money out of your account and there are non sufficient funds (NSF), I believe every bank on earth charges a penalty fee. In addition, if it was a check you wrote to a business, they ALSO charge a fee. If there is not enough money in your account to cover these fees, you get charged a NSF fee for each of these fees that are levied against your account.
ReplyDeleteIf you have savings at this bank, they often will move money from your savings to checking to cover the NSF amount but Federal law limits that to 5 or 6 times per month I believe.
If you have "Overdraft Protection", a NSF fee is not usually charged (it's not for NASA CU) but a loan is automatically issued to cover the shortage of funds. The person you wrote a check to will get paid (avoiding his NSF fee). You must pay the bank back the money they loaned you plus an interest fee.
My wife incurred some NSF fees from her credit union and I had here inquire as to the availability of Overdraft Protection. If was available but you had to ask for it.
So, you don't need to be a Banker to understand that Overdraft Protection is a good thing and any bank that gives it to you without asking is doing you a favor.
Al, let's just agree that not all overdraft protection is as nice as NASA CU. Overdraft protection at M&T means they charge the NSF and then pay your charge. When they re- order your charges so that you are charged morein NSF fees in the end, that is illegal. M&T was okay if you knew the people at your regular branch -Cambridge, but the other branches- esp, in SBY- were always rude. I now bank with Hebron Savings, they are awesome no matter which branch you go to and they may not always be able to fix stuff but they treat me with respect. I've overdrafted a couple of times in my years.
ReplyDelete