Choice. That's what we're being promised by Barack Obama. According to the left, if you go along with their scheme to nationalize health care you'll be able to keep your private insurance and choose your doctor. Unfortunately, it flies in the face of common sense:
Politicians like Rep. Frank Kratovil (D-MD) try to tell us that the Obama / Kennedy plan won't lead to a single payer system. Of course it will! It's basic economics. If the taxpayer is subsidizing the "public option", how is the private insurance industry expected to compete? When employers and individuals start flocking to the "public option", because it's the most affordable, what will happen to private health insurance?
In a few years, after we have a single payer plan, what's next? RATIONING! Everywhere in world that has adopted single payer has had to ration health care. Explain that to your parent who can't get heart surgery because they're TOO OLD, or to your child who can't get an MRI because access has been restricted by a "Health Care Authority".
We need only look across the north to see how well this system works:
When we start rationing care in the US, where are we supposed to go? Mexico?
What can you do? Start by going to Patients First and sign their petition. Call and email your congressman. Email your friends and ask them to do the same. Just remember, the left is organized to win this battle and YOU (and YOUR FAMILY) will be the ones paying the cost.
Politicians like Rep. Frank Kratovil (D-MD) try to tell us that the Obama / Kennedy plan won't lead to a single payer system. Of course it will! It's basic economics. If the taxpayer is subsidizing the "public option", how is the private insurance industry expected to compete? When employers and individuals start flocking to the "public option", because it's the most affordable, what will happen to private health insurance?
In a few years, after we have a single payer plan, what's next? RATIONING! Everywhere in world that has adopted single payer has had to ration health care. Explain that to your parent who can't get heart surgery because they're TOO OLD, or to your child who can't get an MRI because access has been restricted by a "Health Care Authority".
We need only look across the north to see how well this system works:
When we start rationing care in the US, where are we supposed to go? Mexico?
What can you do? Start by going to Patients First and sign their petition. Call and email your congressman. Email your friends and ask them to do the same. Just remember, the left is organized to win this battle and YOU (and YOUR FAMILY) will be the ones paying the cost.
You have overlooked a big point:
ReplyDeleteThe private corporations are the ones who control our government. Of course, they are pretending they can't compete with the public option. The key is there is no "public" anymore. The private corporations have taken over our government.
Like we have a choice now. Insurance companies tell you what doctor to go, what tests you can have, what surgery,what medications to take. How is it any different?
ReplyDeleteSorry, G.A., but we already have our health care rationed. By corporations, accountable only to their stockholders, and not the voters.
ReplyDeleteQuestion: if the government is so inefficient, inept, and incapable of doing things correctly... why would they be able to beat out the private "free market" insurers who, by all Conservative accounts, are the very model of efficiency?
Finally, you say the lower price will drive people to the public system, right? Okay, but everything the government runs is crap, right? So, if you wanted QUALITY OF SERVICE you would stay with your private insurer, right? Price is only ONE component in why people choose a product or service. Quality is another big one. I mean, your argument assumes that price is the only factor... and, going by that logic, no one would buy Mercedes' or BMWs or Lexus'... everyone would be driving a Ford Festiva.
THAT is basic economics, my friend.
Great point Anonymous 12:37 pm. When the right-wing crazies stop yelling socialist, please take some time to think about how a majority of folks looking for gov. aid (healthcare, unemployment, food stamps) are hardworking folks who may have been laid off, had a serious injury, or gotten sick. This could be YOU one day soon (unemployment >9%). Very few of them want to leech off the system; they just need a hand during tough times like these.
ReplyDeleteI would like to know if nationalized health care is so great why are the politians exempting themselves and keeping the health insurance they they have now? When poitians exempt themselves, like they always do, tells me that they would be giving up something a lot better than what they try to force on the public with their ridiculous legislation. I will take another look and possibly agree with nationalized health care if 1) the politians pass legislation that is equal to what they have now and they are included by mandate, not excluded in any form and 2) no one that is in this country illegally is covered at all. That will reduce the cost drasticly.
ReplyDelete1:32,
ReplyDeleteThey DO have Federal Health care, and it's pretty good. Not sure what your point is, considering they aren't exempting themselves.
In fact, I think every American should have access to THEIR health care, or they should have to buy it on the open market like we do. One or the other.
By the way, you're already paying for the health care of illegal immigrants under our glorious "free market solution" to health care.
Proof what is good for the goose isnt always good for the gander... makes you wonder if they really believe in it or maybe its just for the great unwashed... after all they hold themselves to a different standard on a lot of issues. On both sides of the aisle I might add
ReplyDeleteRec1,
ReplyDeleteYou don't see our politicians giving up there "Socialized" health care, do you? I Wonder why they won't give it us?
If you liberals think the Gov is going to take good care of you .... think again.
ReplyDeleteI live in CA most of the year where getting a blood test means sitting in a room full of illegals for usually over an hour ...waiting. My arthritis doctor discontinued seeing me when it was rumored the Gov was going to cut payments to doctors. I am on a Gov program ,Medicare and it stinks. The doctors spend most of their time sending you for more tests and writing prescriptions. A lot of the specialists have started to refuse Medicare patients.
Question....who is going to pay for this when the people who can afford to move ....move out of the country? Please tell me what program the Gov. runs that is successful. Congress is sure doing a bang up job spending your money.... if you can call it a job. If they can promise me the same health benefits the Congress gets it might be more interesting. I think that is why they run for these positions..... the benefits and the retirement. They sure aren't reading any of the bills they are passing or letting us read them.
What does the government run well?
ReplyDeleteThe Postal Service
The FDA
The USDA
The Military
The FBI
The Interstate Highway System
NASA
etc
etc
That's not to say that the government runs EVERYTHING well. Any bureaucracy is ineffective and inefficient at some things.
OMG Chuck, you're truly making me believe you're crazy. YOU believe the Government runs anything well?
ReplyDeleteHave you ever heard of those Government Employees who sit on their A$$E$ all day doing next to nothing but are impossible to get rid of because of their own self made legislation?
Let me simply tackle the Postal Service for starters. #1, that's not supposed ton be owned by the Government, they can't have a monopoly. Beyond that, they keep having rate increases instead of operating more efficiently and or perhaps even closing on Saturday's instead. They cut no corners and instead increase their rates. Like NEWSPAPERS, they're quickly becoming a thing of the past. Our children will not use them any longer as everything is going electronic.
The way our piece of sh!t government works is, they'll simply start charging five cents per e-mail to make up for a loss they shouldn't have a monopoly on in the first place. FedEx and UPS could blow them out of the water in a matter of months, if they were allowed to compete for mail service.
Anyhow, our government doesn't know how to run JACK, other than raising taxes or rates.
If what you say is true, Joe, then the USPS wouldn't be competitive at all in the package delivery business. In fact, the USPS is a great example of why a public option in health care wouldn't put the private insurers out of business. Is FedEx or UPS going under right now? Nope.
ReplyDeleteAnd you don't think the government runs the military well? or law enforcement? or firefighting?
Chuck, come on now. Everyone knows the United States HIRES companies to protect other companies across the World so that our own military doesn't have to face the Press when something goes wrong. They also hire private companies to fly planes and helicopters so our government doesn't have to be involved.
ReplyDeleteWhen it comes to the USPS, they do deliver smaller packages but they do NOT allow UPS or FedEx to deliver "letters" unless they're in a minimum sized envelope and overnight or 2nd day air and such.
What YOU state as "public option in health care" is complete bullshit and you know it. It starts out today as OPTIONAL but changes in just a matter of a few short years. They'll pump it up, (or pimp it up) as they always do and then sell Americans on how it's the best way to go and then we're done.
As far as UPS and FedEx going under, I'll remind you that they were PRIVATE Companies until forced to go PUBLIC, (UPS, anyway) in order to be able to compete. THEY didn't raise the funds to accomplish this, they had to rely on people like me to buy their stock.
That being said, since UPS didn't owe any money to anyone, I purchased a TON of their Stock the very day they went Public. While I expected them to pay back huge dividands because they didn't owe anyone and I also expected the Stock to go through the roof, it failed to produce anything we all expected as investors and that too remains to be a mystery.
The Government also stopped ALL of us from buying more than 500 shares at a time, so we had to go through numerous brokers to get the Stock the very first day.
Our Government has more control on us than you think. But then again, (NO disrespect intended) you've never been in our position financially to know or understand that.
One day, if you'd like, you and I can sit down and discuss many unbelievable stories I can share with you and you can confirm as easy as using the Internet to find 100% accurate and true about what our government does to regulate ALL of us. It's ALL about numbers Chuck and what they can do to control all of us and know exactly what they can expect from taxpayers yearly. It's called "regulation." Just like automobiles being REGULATED by the Federal Government and gas mileage. Do you really believe we can't get 100 mpg in any vehicle today? Of course we can. However, the Government tells the auto makers what they want mileage wise so they can know what to expect each year through gasoline taxes.
Like I said, it's all a numbers game that we've all gotten used to. I look forward to that conversation.
But, your comments about UPS still don't address the fact that UPS and FedEx are still competitive with the government owned USPS. That's how a public option plan would be, as well. Especially if, as a Conservative, you don't believe the government can run health care as well as the private system, then you will shop elsewhere for QUALITY, right?
ReplyDeleteAlso, what you see as a "pimping it up" seems kind of paranoid. Not a single politician is talking about a single payer system, and Americans want choice. That's what this is all about: giving choice to US, the VOTERS. Right now, Insurance companies have us by the balls, and that won't change until they've got REAL competition, in the form of a public option. What makes you think we're getting a single payer system, when no one is advocating for that?
As for gas mileage: I think you've got that a bit backwards, my friend. We have gas guzzlers specifically because Conservatives have been successful in stopping us from RAISING CAFE standards to FORCE those companies to be more fuel efficient. We could have a 100 mpg car right now, and it's the government's fault in NOT forcing the standards higher to make it happen.
I do, however, look forward to talking to you more about it.
Wow! A civilized discussion with no name-calling. Kudos, Chuck and Joe. Now if everyone who comments here can take a lesson from Joe and Chuck...yeah, that'll happen.
ReplyDeleteask yourself this...
ReplyDeletewhere else in the world has socialized healthcare succeeded?
(yes, I said socialized, single payer = socialized, comrade)
I think I can count the number on, let's see, ZERO FINGERS!!!
Is that what you really want for yourself, your parents, YOUR CHILDREN? WAKE UP, MORONS!
Chuck, do you remember the Post I did for Chuck Campbell at Seacrets not that long ago? Do you also recall the Mercedes they are raffeling off and what the sticker on the window said for a gas guzzler tax? It was $1,300.00 for that car alone! Sorry my friend but you're blind.
ReplyDeleteIF you believe UPS and FedEx are competitive with USPS, you continue to miss the point Chuck. UPS & FedEx and NOT ALLOWED to COMPETE with the mail delivery service. How is it competition if they cannot do so??? How can the Federal Government regulate them from doing so when they're not supposed to be a monopoly?????
While I firmly agree the Insurance Companies are truly out of control, our Government isn't supposed to be in the business of competing. It failed when they regulated AT&T years ago. Hell Chuck, I get at least a $350.00 a month phone bill. How have things come down? We should all be paying peanuts per minute for cell phone usage.
I'll tell you what. Try this one out for size. While I can understand I have an unusually high cell bill, let's take an avewrage of at least $50.00 a month for cell phone service. I think that's a fair number. Now count the amount of people in Wicomico County alone and calculate that number by $50.00 a month. When you see what this County alone spends on cell phone bills alone it should blow your mind. You cannot tell me that this service costs anywhere near what they're charging. Then tack in the 911 service charges and taxes on each line. It's a joke. The Government stepped in to break up AT&T and Bell Atlantic and SCREWED everyone in the process. The Government needs to stay OUT of ANY business and stop finding more ways to GROW, which costs the taxpayers, NOT the Government.
Everything the Government has touched, we have been screwed in the end. Hey Chuck, have the Airlines paid back the billions of dollars they borrowed from the Government after 911? You DO remember the Government gifting them with something like 10 billion dollars, (or whatever it was), right? Then like a-holed they told them they only had to pay them back 1/2 of OUR money! Nice GIFT, eh? Nevertheless, how come there was NEVER anything put out to the PRESS that they had actually paid back that money?????
At least when Chrysler borrowed money, they not only paid it back, they paid it back years before they were expected to and it was all over the press.
Keep the GD Government out of our business and stop the growth of their madness, that's what I say.
Joe, I specifically said "package delivery", not standard mail delivery. Which is where they compete. And they compete well with UPS and FedEx in package delivery. That was my point. They don't take a loss and they're not being pushed down... nor are they hurting UPS or FedEx.
ReplyDeleteAnd the Ma Bell breakup done by the government ensured MORE business could occur. Where once you had a monopoly, now you have competition. I don't really understand your point. Are you arguing FOR a monopoly? Also, the cost of $50.00 is what the PRIVATE PHONE COMPANIES are charging you for their services. the taxes on those are negligible compared to what the "free market" is giving you in prices.
Finally, I don't understand the "gas guzzler tax" comment. Weren't we talking about CAFE standards and government regulation?
Chuck, again, reswpectfully, it's NOT competition if you're REGULATED as to what part you can or can't compete with.
ReplyDeleteThe Government should stop any laws whereas they CONTROL the biggest share of volume and that's the mail/letter service.
It was the USPS that started delivering larger packages in order to stay afloat against UPS & FedEx. Now how is that fair, for starters, if the other companies cannot compete in the mail/letter business?
IF we as a government would have stayed out of the Ma Bell breakup, phone cervice would now be $10.00 a month. In my manufacturing company I certainly enjoyed 25+ years of being the only guy in the world doing what I did. It wasn't a monopoly, people simply didn't choose to compete with me but had every right to do so. While I enjoyed many years of being the only guy on the block, I truly enjoyed when someone else came into the business so I could start to slow down and head into retirement. However, Chuck, I was smart enough to save those big earnings and didn't live at or beyond my means and that is why I am ahead of the game. Some are smart and others are greedy. You figure it out.
You mentioned earlier about gas guzzlers and forcing companies to be more fuel efficient. What right does the Government have forcing anyone to get better gas mileage? Granted, I believe they should ENCOURAGE auto makers to do better but trust me on this one Chuck, OUR GOVERNMENT does NOT want better mileage. They make billions off Americans on gas tax each and every year.
The only way they can punish certain auto makers and penalize them is by forcing them to pay a gas guzzling tax, which again is no different from a dealer selling a vehicle above and beyond the suggested retail price. How many people do you know that have done that? In the end, YOU and I pay the price, not the Dealer and not the Government, IF we happen to purchase a vehicle that gets crappy mileage. God Forbid you have 5 children and need a big vehicle to get them to and from. As for the Mercedes, I doubt anyone paying $140,000.00 gives a crap about a $1,300.00 gas guzzler add on but no matter what, thank your Government for yet another BS tax.
Wait until we discuss Oil Drilling Regulations by our Federal Government. That will REALLY blow your mind! I'll give you a hint, if it doesn't produce 100 plus barrels of oil per day NATURALLY, the Government FORCES you to cap the well and GIVE it to the Federal Government. Get this though Chuck. Let's say you drill a well and get 70 barrels a day naturally, again, you must cap it and give it to the Government, (after you spent all that money researching and drilling it). Oh, it gets better!!!!! If you're fortunate enough to get a well that produces more than 100 barrels a day, guess how many barrels a day our wonderful Government allows us to produce from that well? No more than 10 barrels, if you're lucky!
I have been involved in some wells that would blow your mind what they COULD produce but again, it's all regulated. Nice retirement returns on your money but a complete joke. 95% of the time you won't hit a pocket that will give you their minimum standards, so just imagine just how many FREE wells the Government is now sitting on, ready to pop open and start producing any time they so choose??????? It's all about the numbers Chuck. We have PLENTY of oil right here in America but guess what, You and most Everyone else are clueless about it.
Let's have that talk.
Indeed, we will have that talk... because I think we've gone completely off topic, at this point.
ReplyDeleteI agree. I look forward to it.
ReplyDelete3:02 Where does the information come from that it never works? It is extremely sucessful in Japan and France. We are the ones that set it up in Japan after the war.
ReplyDeleteIt's also extremely successful in Canada, Great Britain, Germany, Italy, etc.
ReplyDeleteWHy do you suppose that the helthcare industry lobbyist and the drug company lobbyist are spending upwards of 2.5 million dollars a day to influence your elected officials? It ain't for the good of any of you. What is smarter, healthcare provider choice for everyone (competition) or healthcare provider choice for the few (monopoly). This is a no brainer.
ReplyDeleteI agree with 12:37-people with private health insurance are already getting treatment "rationed" out to them.They constantly reject valid insurance claims and cause finiancial hardships on subscribers who already pay thru the nose for the coverage they should be getting,but are not.The private companies are trying to tell subscribers what kind of treatment they need,second guessing actual doctors.Do something about the private insurers before anything else,and maybe the whole "social medicine" expiriment will be a moot point if the current system of healthcare in this country can be improved.
ReplyDeleteWith a public option no one would go bankrupt on health care.Medicare patients do not go bankrupt. Everyone knows someone that medical care drove them broke. This is wrong.
ReplyDeleteAMERICA’S NATIONAL HEALTHCARE EMERGENCY!
ReplyDeleteIt’s official. America and the World are now in a GLOBAL PANDEMIC. A World EPIDEMIC with potential catastrophic consequences for ALL of the American people. The first PANDEMIC in 41 years. And WE THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES will have to face this PANDEMIC with the 37th worst quality of healthcare in the developed World.
STAND READY AMERICA TO SEIZE CONTROL OF YOUR NATIONAL HEALTHCARE SYSTEM.
We spend over twice as much of our GDP on healthcare as any other country in the World. And Individual American spend about ten times as much out of pocket on healthcare as any other people in the World. All because of GREED! And the PRIVATE FOR PROFIT healthcare system in America.
And while all this is going on, some members of congress seem mostly concern about how to protect the corporate PROFITS! of our GREED DRIVEN, PRIVATE FOR PROFIT NATIONAL DISGRACE. A PRIVATE FOR PROFIT DISGRACE that is in fact, totally valueless to the public health. And a detriment to national security, public safety, and the public health.
Progressive democrats the Tri-Caucus and others should stand firm in their demand for a robust public option for all Americans, with all of the minimum requirements progressive democrats demanded. If congress can not pass a robust public option with at least 51 votes and all robust minimum requirements, congress should immediately move to scrap healthcare reform and request that President Obama declare a state of NATIONAL HEALTHCARE EMERGENCY! Seizing and replacing all PRIVATE FOR PROFIT health insurance plans with the immediate implementation of National Healthcare for all Americans under the provisions of HR676 (A Single-payer National Healthcare Plan For All).
Coverage can begin immediately through our current medicare system. With immediate expansion through recruitment of displaced workers from the canceled private sector insurance industry. Funding can also begin immediately by substitution of payroll deductions for private insurance plans with payroll deductions for the national healthcare plan. This is what the vast majority of the American people want. And this is what all objective experts unanimously agree would be the best, and most cost effective for the American people and our economy.
In Mexico on average people who received medical care for A-H1N1 (Swine Flu) with in 3 days survived. People who did not receive medical care until 7 days or more died. This has been the same results in the US. But 50 million Americans don’t even have any healthcare coverage. And at least 200 million of you with insurance could not get in to see your private insurance plans doctors in 2 or 3 days, even if your life depended on it. WHICH IT DOES!
If President Obama has to declare a NATIONAL STATE OF EMERGENCY to rescue the American people from our healthcare crisis, he will need all the sustained support you can give him. STICK WITH HIM! He’s doing a brilliant job.
THIS IS THE BIG ONE!
THE BATTLE OF GOOD Vs EVIL!
Join the fight.
Contact congress and your representatives NOW! AND SPREAD THE WORD!
God Bless You
Jacksmith – WORKING CLASS