Simply because an establishment like Breaktime Billiards and Seacrets have stated new rules as to what you can and can't wear into their establishment does not create discrimination.
Unlike Brew River, (well known for massive fights even this past weekend) who somehow flies UNDER the radar from any Press Releases and or Police Reports going public, Chef Fred's, Breaktime, Market Street Inn have been receiving horrible press because of such problems.
A few weeks ago someone claimed they had been stabbed inside Chef Fred's, yet they refused medical treatment. Chef Fred's produced video of the man being assaulted in the parking lot, not inside the establishment. Now how is this Chef Fred's responsibility?
The Liquor Board held an extremely long meeting the other night to determine if Chef Fred's will lose their liquor license. BS! At the risk of sounding stupid, (no different from the Liquor Board challenging Chef Fred's) the blame in their case should be placed on better policing by the Salisbury Police Department. I know, again, far fetched, right? Well, if we're living in a society whereas we pay hefty taxes and are struggling in an economy brought on by loser politicians who seems to get wealthier than most, especially during such rough times, businesses have had to make responsible changes to babysit adults and now you scream discrimination!
What the Liquor Board is considering is more in the line of discrimination than changing a dress code. OK, so a Police Officer shows up at your front door to tell you that your son/daughter was just killed by a stay bullet from a man in a black hoodie and a mask on his face. Traditionally, most Salisbury murders go unsolved. They hint it was Gang related, but they're not sure.
IF the establishment had rules within a dress code to make sure their clientele, (ALL of them) weren't allowed to wear that traditional attire, your son/daughter would be alive today.
Chef Fred's has even gone so far as purchasing metal detectors, also seen at Seacrets. My God people, is this what we have become. Now you have to carry a gun just to protect yourself, yet it is illegal to do so.
My hat is tipped to Breaktime Billiards for caring enough to take precautions before something serious possibly happens. I sincerely hope the Liquor Boards considers the fact that Chef Fred's did everything right. There isn't a bar in Salisbury that isn't hurting in a very big way Folks. They have all seen a massive drop in business and are still being pressured into more bouncers and metal detectors to keep their establishments safe.
Quit your bellyaching about a dress code. If you don't like it, you don't belong there anyway. These businesses are a livelihood for more people than you realize.
Is it discrimination when golf courses make you wear collared shirts to play?
ReplyDeletehmmmm.
DJ
Thank you Mr. Albero. Finally someone who is making sense about the whole situation. Several establishments around Salisbury have a dress code. It is no mystery that there is massive amounts of crime in this area and it would be a shame if the liquor board began shutting down bars due to something that is completely out of their hands. Clearly they are overstepping their boundaries. Why not have the police step in and make a concerted effort to aid these establishments?
ReplyDeleteAmen and Thank You Joe!! You Are The MAN!!
ReplyDeletei got to Break time all the time. with the crime rate and descriptions of the suspects are with hoodies, yeah, they should be banned. But as far as jackets or coats not allowed in, thats not right. you havent seen a robbery suspect on camera wearing a pea coat or a blaser have you? Target the issues that create the issues. Thats like saying recall every vehile just because of the toyota issue.
ReplyDeleteBrew River is probably the worst establishment for fights and undesirables. Even the Cactus club is quiet and almost trouble free these days. Dress codes prevent alot of problems and prevent the rifraft from entering.
ReplyDeleteThe Flying Club was the leader in dress code use in the late 70's when it opened. Things went along well for years until the dress code was relaxed. The upswing of unwanted actions steadily increased until it was no longer the place to be.The common thread was its owner Mr. Hanna. The city and the liquor board was not about to challenge him. He had deep pockets, lawyers and political ties. It still goes on today and its not going to change.
I applaud Break Time for being proactive and it will pay dividends longterm. The one thing that nobody has mentioned is usually the source of many problems is the BOUNCERS. They are often the catalyst to unwanted behavior in clubs. There is a right and a wrong way to handle unrest when alcohol is involved. Too many times the real instigator is the bouncer who brings on a confrontation to satisfy their enlarged ego.
Fact: a large number of young black people wear the style of clothing that is now banned at Breaktime as well as other establishments.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately young people (black, white, whatever) are usually the ones starting trouble at these places and they are often wearing these types of clothes.
I don't think the intent is to discriminate against young blacks. But it is unfortunate that most of us, who don't go out looking for trouble, aren't allowed to wear what we want due to the acts of a few dumb@$$es. In either case, if the establishment is good enough, we'll change clothes and go in. If not, we'll save our money and party somewhere else.
As long as you don't see the policy selectively enforced, as I have at places like Seacrets, case closed.
anon 11:37
ReplyDeleteit is not discrimination, it is called a dress code.
you don't need to be wearing a suit and tie to go to the local watering holes, but pull your pants up, turn the hat around the right way, and quit looking like a thug and they won't be bothering you.
I agree with the dress codes, you shouldn't want to go out looking like a thug anyway...but to say that a dress code is the solution to crime/barfights/violence is just silly.
ReplyDeleteYou're dealing with crazy SU kids, little Salisbury thugs, and you might as well throw the redneck stereotype in there as well. There's always going to be problems.
And about Chef Fred's...maybe it would help if their staff(bartenders) didn't get so plastered and they realized who they should and SHOULD NOT be serving. For example, someone that's already clearly intoxicated.
Sorry 11:57 I disagree. The jackets and coats policy is their for a number of reasons. There are strict laws in this county with regards to alcohol sales and consumption. I, myself have seen a big increase in the number of people trying to sneak beer/wine/liquor into bars via the use of jackets and coats. It poses a huge risk for these business owners because if bottles of liquor, wine and beer that get snuck into the bar are discovered by one of the liquor board's stings and/or investigations, the business takes the wrap. Technically, if one of these beverages is discovered the business can be subject to liquor board fines and tax evasion. A business can actually be shut down for this depending on the severity.
ReplyDeleteSorry 11:57 I disagree. The jackets and coats policy is their for a number of reasons. There are strict laws in this county with regards to alcohol sales and consumption. I, myself have seen a big increase in the number of people trying to sneak beer/wine/liquor into bars via the use of jackets and coats. It poses a huge risk for these business owners because if bottles of liquor, wine and beer that get snuck into the bar are discovered by one of the liquor board's stings and/or investigations, the business takes the wrap. Technically, if one of these beverages is discovered the business can be subject to liquor board fines and tax evasion. A business can actually be shut down for this depending on the severity.
ReplyDeleteI was present at the hearing for Chef Fred's. It is a shame what they are trying to do. It was important for the board to hear from the gentleman (I say for lack of a better word) that claims to have been wounded inside the bar. It was important to hear from a manager of a neighboring business that knows nothing as to what Fred & Brenda do inside there business. But the board chose not to listen to the 10+ Restraunt owners that were present to support Fred & Brenda. This is what supports them (the board that is). Local businesses pay not only there salaries but each and every elected officals in this great Wicomico County. This all needs to be remembered the next election! Until we elect the real people of this county & not the ones looking for payout nothing will change.
ReplyDeleteI have been to bars that won't let you in if you are wearing any kind of boots or hat or non collared button up shirt (for the guys). Those are places that have a good atmosphere and no fights.
ReplyDeleteSo it finally is stated that all the bars are hurting! That took long enough!
ReplyDeleteI don't believe they're hurting because of crime, I believe they are hurting because of the ant-smoking laws.
Since the smokers cut down going to the bars because they couldn't smoke, the bars have had no choice but to welcome these undesirables.
To the last anonymous 12:28, I happen to agree. I think the smoking laws have truly put a hurting on the Bars and Restaurants. In fact, so much so that we used to go to Breaktime Billiards once a week with our Cigar Club and when the smoking ended, we stopped going. We ALL ate and most of us drank as well. They lost hundreds of dollars a week from us.
ReplyDeleteMind you, I truly enjoy Breaktime Billiards and think it's a fine establishment. I just enjoy a good cigar while playing pool and would rather stay at home instead. Yes, I do have a Billiard Room in my home but we chose to go elsewhere to support local businesses.
How these establishments can claim the no smoking law didn't hurt them is simply a lie.
Thank you Joe for not only addressing the real problem, but for also supporting the local bar and restaurants in the area. Being a bartender myself and witnessing the unfortunate behavior of the ever growing less then repitable cliental that have been troubling business makes it rough for not only owners but employes. Having to be walked to your car at night after work or calling for a police escort because you don't feel safe is a sad fact for Salisbury now a days and bars should not be blamed. On the note of Chef Fred's FoxTales drinking behind the bar, I have been in there and have offered to buy the girls a shot on more then one occason and all those times they have refused due to owners policy and having to be clear headed to monitor customers. Working at a place that allowes only two shots before 12 and knowing the stress that comes from waiting on bar customers, I wish they could. So unless you are a bartender and know the stresses of the business, don't presume to think you know those girls or blame them for for the actions of the customers. Thanks again Joe!
ReplyDelete....and DUI enforcement but, You all are forgetting the biggest factor....unemployment!
ReplyDeleteI have seen many bar fights that are provoked and taken to the next level by the bouncers. Salisbury Police should just work miracles and be at every public establishment every Fri, Sat and Sun from 10-2am! Oh, but they should also be at every scumbag hotel and every bad section of the city. So SPD, take your 8 huys per shift and start placing them on every street corner, so that when these criminals move to the next corner you are there. Can your 8 guys per shift handle that? Oh and don't forget the calls, and security checks on local businesses. Come on Salisbury citizens aren't asking that much! You make what 35K a year? Thats enough $ to handle every issue.
ReplyDeleteIf its not one thing its another people! And its always SPD's fault! ALWAYS
I agree Joe, the anti-smoking laws have hurt bar business more than anyone is admitting.
ReplyDeletethe battle is already lost if people that want less governance are so quick to embrace more rules and depend on an ever growing police presence to assure their safety I think Pogo said it best " Weez metz the enemy and daze is uz"
ReplyDelete35K a year to possibly place yourself in harms way everytime you go to work is a joke, a slap in the face to every policeman out there.
ReplyDeleteIn response to the comment about some of the bouncers at these establishments being a problem, I agree. That is the main reason I don't go to Brew River anymore. There was a guy about 5'9" probably 140 lbs. soaking wet who happened to vomit while outside. Three bouncers grabbed this guy and drug him out around the side of the building like he had beaten, robbed, and raped somebody. All they had to do was get his 3 friends (that were right there and laughing at him) to take him out. Instead the friends went to defend their drunk buddy from the overly-aggressive bouncers, resulting in a shoving match and all 4 men being kicked out.
ReplyDeleteWe were there on another occasion when it was winter and the outside bar was closed. We walked over to the almost empty restaurant area where there were 4 other people sitting in a booth and grabbed a small table to get out of the noise and heat for a few minutes. Two bouncers came over and told us we needed to go back into the bar area. We explained what we were doing and he said that we still needed to go to the bar area. My friend remarked that if we had to go back over then the people in the booth should have to go back over. They immediately got in his face and told him to leave or be tossed out on his head. I told the bouncer that he needed to relax it wasn't a big deal and next thing I knew three more bouncers came over and physically forced us out (females included). I go to the Green Turtle quite frequently and you rarely see someone in a fight get tossed out so aggressively as someone at Brew who has posed no physical threat to anyone. They are mostly @$$holes there. We will never go back.
12:54 PM
ReplyDeleteYou have a bad attitude. If you can't do your job, or are unhappy with it, go elsewhere.
We need people to do their job, and be professional, productive and positive while doing it.
While I agree $35k is not a lot of money, especially for a police officer, all of you knew that when you applied.
I don't think a single person in Salisbury would object to a raise for you.
But this is not the way to go about it. It gives you an even worse image.
And speaking of image, hem those trousers and polish those boots. At least try to look the part.
Anonymous 12:54
ReplyDeleteLet's See 25,000 citizens to 8 Police officers Thats 1 Cop to Every 3,125 citizens. Salisbury should take Chief Websters pension and hire another 500 officers to protect Salisbury from the criminals That Chief Webster let Evolve in Salisbury over The Past Years
These bars are and need to start taking responsibilty. If you play the thumping music and allow people to dress like thugs, that is what you will get! They know this, yet places like Chef Fred's continue to allow it. I don't care if the stabbings happen inside or out... you are attracting the thugs, so the problems that come with them, you will get!
ReplyDeleteThe hotels, you allow crack heads and protitutes to enter your establishment, you have inherited the problems that come with them!
When these establishments start taking responsibility and address these issues, rather than blaming it on the police... a lot of the violence (certainly not all)will go away, or be more condensed.
1:27, this is 12:54... I am not a police officer! I think for 8 officers these establishments need to take responsibility! They can not possibly be everywhere at once.
ReplyDeleteAnd as far as hemming pants and polishing shoes... grow up... are you concerned with how these cops look or with where they are? I am personally concerned more with where they are in our city and what they are doing that there shoes shining! I have seen far to many cops in this town with polished shoes, hats and hemmed pants that are complete jerks and don't deserve to carry a badge.
As far as bad attitude... darn right. I'm tired of people whining about this crap! When will businesses take responsibility for the customers they attract! Don't get me wrong, their are crimes daily that businesses are not asking for (east side deli for example). But if you are a bar, allowing people to wear their colors and bandanas. Allowing them to get crazy drunk, allowing them in with weapons and playing their thug music... you get what you ask for!
2:09 PM
ReplyDeleteYou're not a police officer?! Oh well I guess that really makes your case then.
Anyway, as far as your immature "grow up" suggestion goes, how do you expect anyone to respect and obey a police officer if he looks like a bum walking around with no concern over his appearance?
They are called uniforms for a reason. Maybe you live in a priviledged part of town if 'far too many cops with hemmed trousers,...etc., but ones I see do not fit your description.
And they sure do have a lot of parked police cars at station most of the time for only 8 officers a shift.
If they don't have officers to utilize those units, they should sell them and hire qualified people to do so.
I know alot of people, including myself that stopped going to the bars because of the smoking ban.
ReplyDeleteThe reason the Liquor Licensing people take on these cases is because regardless if it happened inside or out they were customers of the establishment. I think that the Licensing board would just like the establishments to take action, like breaktime ect, so that this kind of thing discontinues.
ReplyDeleteYou have to understand that the licensing board is about the only real jurisdiction that can make things change. The police can't charge the owners with a violation of law because patrons start shooting or stabbing each other... But the licensing board can certainly suspend or revoke their liquor license if the owners don't take action to prevent this stuff...
Say what you want but the dress codes WORK... problem is every establishment doesn't require them and when the "thugs" can't get into an establishment because of it's dress code, they just find one that will allow them in no matter their dress...and there will always be some owner who cares more about making money than the problems that certain clientelle bring with them... look at Salvatores in West Ocean City
4:42
ReplyDeleteChef Freds has a dress code
They have to protect their businesses.Why fault them for that?The bottom line is that when you have fights and outside liquor in your bar you risk losing your liquor license.They are just doing what they have to do to stay in business.Nothing personal.
ReplyDeleteI too stop going to bars because of the smoking ban. What the heck. Salisbury has become a boring town since the ban.
ReplyDelete3:43... How many cars they have doesn't reflect how many people they have on a shift. I am assuming you are speaking of unmarked, personal vehicles? The officers don't take their cars home in Salisbury, they have employees that are not police officers as well... who do you think answers the phones, files paperwork, etc.
ReplyDeleteI still don't agree that unhemmed pants or shined shoes are important. As a matter of fact shined shoes have never been the reason an officer ran fast enough to catch a criminal. If you have an issue with appearances talk to the brass on the third floor! All I am saying is, you want appearances and for these cops to be everywhere at all times. With the limited staff at SPD its not possible. The reason I mentioned the 35K a year is when other departments are offering far more money, why would you pick SPD... especially when Webster was still there.
As for the police, I'm tired of hearing the argument "you knew the salary when you signed on". Yeah I knew the salary then and I guess I was stupid to think that it would keep up with the cost of living rather than stay the same for four years. I bet even your mcdonalds salary has been increased slightly every year for being the best darn burger flipper. People keep blaming the ones that have remained loyal to the city through good and bad despite being dumped on continuously.
ReplyDelete1:45 How is chef freds not taking responsibity? Because they play "thumping music". Music has nothing to do with this. Green turtle plays the same music and they never have problems.
ReplyDeleteAlso brew river has a dress code and they enforce it. Wanna know why brew river has problems all the time? Look at what side of town its on!
6:46 PM
ReplyDeleteI am assuming you are speaking of unmarked, personal vehicles?
No, I am not. But you know what they say about assuming.
I still don't agree that unhemmed pants or shined shoes are important. As a matter of fact shined shoes have never been the reason an officer ran fast enough to catch a criminal
And that's why you have the force that you have now.
Running fast to catch criminals? How many unsolved crimes have we had recently? For years?
Some seem like they are arguing they are not doing their job because of the pay.
Then they say other Dept's. pay more but they are loyal to Salisbury.
Am I the only one to see the BS in this logic?
Appearance is just one factor. An point just to illustrate the most minimal thing they should do but don't.
Why doesn't the city hire more officers if it only has '8 per shift'?
I can't believe that there are people who are posting comments regarding the fact that a police office took his/her job knowing what the salary was/is and then expecting the world from them. You have got to be kidding! Go anywhere in the US and every cop out there is paied far less then they should be. To daily risk their lives and have this crap rammed down their throats is just absurd! I am a public school teacher, and would happily give a portion of my salary to them because I respect the hell out of the job they do, which is not for money, but because of a sense of duty to protect and serve the rest of us. To any cop reading the previous comments on this blog that discredited your service, ignore it, because there are a whole bunch of regular people who really respect and admire what you do. As for the whole spit and polish piece, I have not ever personally seen any SPD officer (or any other officer locally for that matter) that wasn't appropriately dressed. Maybe I am far off base here, but I don't think so. Finally, to those idiots who have bashed the boys in blue, who will you call when you are in trouble? Will you be bashing them when you need help?
ReplyDeleteNobody is bashing anyone. I'm just tired of the whining. Yes, they knew what the salary would be and they should have know what was to be expected of them when they accepted the position and the salary.
ReplyDeleteThe SPD has 88 officers with another 8 positions approved for 2010 budget.
How this equates to 8 officers a shift I have no idea. A lot of shifts or people only work 1-2 days a week perhaps.
Regardless, they have a new mayor, a new chief and hopefully, a new direction.
And if they don't want to be 'bashed' as you put it, by God do something to get rid of this criminal element.
And if the city will not give the officers what they want and deserve, and the judges and prosecuters keep letting them back on the streets, start letting the criminals know where they live.
Maybe if they get robbed once or twice or shot maybe then they will see the need.