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Sunday, May 31, 2015

THE DECLINE OF CHRISTIAN AMERICA

Pat Buchanan: As faith dies, individualism, materialism and hedonism replace it

“This is a Christian nation,” said the Supreme Court in 1892.

“America was born a Christian nation,” echoed Woodrow Wilson. Harry Truman affirmed it: “This is a Christian nation.”

But in 2009, Barack Hussein Obama begged to differ: “We do not consider ourselves a Christian nation.”

Comes now a Pew Research Center survey that reveals the United States is de-Christianizing at an accelerated rate.

Whereas 86 percent of Americans in 1990 identified as Christians, by 2007, that was down to 78 percent. Today only 7 in 10 say they are Christians. But the percentage of those describing themselves as atheists, agnostics or nonbelievers has risen to 23. That exceeds the Catholic population and is only slightly below evangelicals.

Those in the mainline Protestant churches – Presbyterians, Lutherans, Methodists, Episcopalians – have plummeted from 50 percent of the U.S. population in 1958 to 14 percent today. By accommodating the social revolution of the 1960s to stay relevant, mainline churches appear to have made themselves irrelevant to America’s young.

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26 comments:

Anonymous said...

When this country was a Christian nation look how well things were.

Anonymous said...

This article is clearly flawed and its premises are absolutely absurd.

Prayer coming out of schools was only upholding the Constitution and the establishment clause. Is this author actually suggesting that because children are no longer forced to say one compulsory prayer per day at school, that everything they learned at home in their Christian home praying multiple times a day going to church 2 to 3 times a week is completely negated? The assertion is absolutely absurd, and ludicrously laughable.

The author tries to blame the Supreme Court, if I'm not mistaken hasn't every single Supreme Court Justice identified as a Christian? Let's do a double check, every president of the United States ever, Christian. Almost every single legislator on the federal and state level, Yep they're Christian too. So what does author is trying to convince us is that Christians who are in control who write the laws who run the courts are responsible for the loss of Christians and Christianity?

Without getting too long-winded here let me postulate a different theory. In the most recent years the entire wealth of knowledge of the human race is in most people's pockets, in their homes and at their work. When people need information and knowledge they just need to turn on your computer or smart phone to find it. No longer are we limited to what we have been told to us to find information or truth. People can actually look for answers, and find truth, and don't have to except the poor God of the gaps arguments anymore. Knowledge in conversation and communication and discourse on the Internet where people can move fairly freely and anonymously has allowed people to open up and find better answers.

I would hypothesize that people are just becoming more knowledgeable and more well read about theology, the world around them, and scientific data. As the world gets smarter, The less we will need these old myths to define what we didn't understand because we lacked the knowledge as a species.

Contrary to this authors absurd assertions that the world will go to garbage, people don't act morally because of a Diety, they act morally because it's in their best interest. We are social species and we work together we have a better chance of survival. So what this author is trying to convince us of is just nonsense. They act morally because it's in their best interest. We are social species and we work together we have a better chance of survival. So what this author is trying to convince us of is just nonsense. It's as if I argued that all Christians are immoral murderers and rapists and criminals because if you look at the prison system almost all prisoners identify as Christian. That's a ridiculous argument, you should think that it is, and so are this author's assertions.

Remember, there is no atheist doctrine or manifesto. Atheist just means that you don't except the claims presented to you by the many many many different theists in the world. It makes no moral claims, doesn't tell you how to act, what to do, it doesn't say or tell you to do anything. To try and assert that atheism causes anyone to act any particular way is also absurd.

For the sake of argument let's say aliens visited our planet and provided absolute proof that they were the ones that created life on this planet. Do you now, as a former Christian, feel that it is okay for you to go and kill your neighbors husband and rape his wife? Of course you don't. So to try to correlate some sort of moral decline is just nonsense.

To try and claim that art and the media are responsible is also absolutely insane. The author tries to convince you that at least today 70% of America is Christian. The arts and media have to be consumed, watched or paid for, by someone. If today and in the past Christians have been an overwhelming majority of the population they are the ones who are consuming this media and paying for it. It's just simple numbers what this author tries to correlate doesn't add up.

Anonymous said...

8:50. I have the Truth in my spirit. If you are getting "truth" from the Internet I am scared for you.

Anonymous said...

This is true all over the educated world. In England only about 10% of babies are even baptized.

Anonymous said...

@9:13

If you think knowledge, in fact the entire knowledge of the human race which can be accessed almost instantly via the Internet, should be superseded by "the truth in your heart" then I believe next you have a bridge to sell me.

Tell me, did that truth in your heart put a man on the moon? Did it cure polio? Has it saved countless lives through modern medicine? Has a provided modern housing, clean water, agriculture, and the list goes on and on. The reason our lives are so good and life is better than it ever has been ever in the history of man is is because of man's innovation and his knowledge and his ability to share that knowledge. There has never been a better way to share that knowledge in the history of man then the Internet.

So between your mysterious heart truth where the knowledge on the Internet, I think I'll go with the Internet. You can keep your Desert text that tells you that plants could exist before the sun and that healing skin conditions involves doves blood and some other sort of weird incantation magic and you keep that. I'm going to go see a doctor if I got a problem.

Anonymous said...

Your dumb enough to think every lawmaker and politician is a Christian? Every president? I quit reading your rant after that.

lmclain said...

I suppose the disciples walked to the far ends of the earth and gave their lives (each of their deaths documented in historical --- not religious -- texts, by by the way) to tell the story (the SAME story) of the things they saw --- miraculous, unbelievable things that so motivated and amazed them that they HAD to tell others. Did they get together one day and tell each other "Hey! Lets make up some outlandish story, WALK thousands of miles through deserts, jungles and mountains, risk starvation, ridicule, torture and death (including being crucified!) to get everyone to believe our tale of spirits and "weird incantation magic"?? With no reward for them except death? These men existed and history has documented their existence, but the person they spoke so passionately about DIDN'T??? Make sense to you?? To anyone???
And Christ said that ALL MEN will hear the Word and make their choice and no one will force that choice upon you.
You've obviously made yours, and I don't condemn you for that choice, but I do disagree with your smug and self-righteous characterization of people who do have faith.
BRILLIANT men across the spectrum of occupations, including scientists, have expressed their faith in Christ. Men MUCH smarter than you or I. If the Internet is your guide for life and truth, go ahead and stick with it.
Good luck.

Anonymous said...

@ 10:11

Then, can you provide some information or evidence that or government officials have not been overwhelmingly Christian? that would be the way to argue it, but, I think the assertion is rationally accurate.

Anonymous said...

9:39. I never said "truth in my heart". I said Truth in my spirit. There is a huge difference.

Anonymous said...

@imclain

All men will hear? You sure about that? Why then can I find plenty of speculative conversations among theists about what happens to those who don't? What about the Jawara tribe? Most folks in North Korea? Come on, you can't really believe that?

Plenty of humans have done outlandish things and given their lives for many different religious claims/religions. None of it, makes any of the claims true. Verifiable evidence makes things true.

If adhering to facts and evidence, and making people support their claims with facts and evidence is smug and self righteous, then I guess I'm happy to wear that hat. I'm not afraid to be corrected or proven wrong, in fact I welcome it, as it will make me more informed better person. When I hear nonsense I am going to check it as such. Again, if that makes me smug, then so be it... However, I will disagree and assert it is our duty to point out bad argument and assertions when we see them.

Let me put it another way, when you get a horrible disease, is it prayer you will rely on to heal you, or the culmination of knowledge found by man you will find at the doctors that will give you the best chance for a cure?

It is not the internet, which is what you are missing here. It is knowledge, and access to it that knowledge. The Internet is only the tool, the gateway to it. And in the marketplace of free ideas, religion is loosing the battle.

Anonymous said...

@9:39

Sorry bout that, here it is again fixed.

If you think knowledge, in fact the entire knowledge of the human race which can be accessed almost instantly via the Internet, should be superseded by "the truth in your spirit" then I believe next you have a bridge to sell me.

Tell me, did that truth in your spirit put a man on the moon? Did it cure polio? Has it saved countless lives through modern medicine? Has a provided modern housing, clean water, agriculture, and the list goes on and on. The reason our lives are so good and life is better than it ever has been ever in the history of man is is because of man's innovation and his knowledge and his ability to share that knowledge. There has never been a better way to share that knowledge in the history of man then the Internet.

So between your mysterious spirit truth where the knowledge on the Internet, I think I'll go with the Internet. You can keep your Desert text that tells you that plants could exist before the sun and that healing skin conditions involves doves blood and some other sort of weird incantation magic and you keep that. I'm going to go see a doctor if I got a problem

Anonymous said...

The fewer Christians there are the more God there will be for the true believers among us to divvy up,right?

Anonymous said...

BAN ALL ORGANIZED RELIGION!!!! The world would be a much better place.

Anonymous said...

Hey...question? Was Jesus a Christian. I mean did his call himself Christian? Did he say that you had to call yourself christian? Most "Christians" I have known (not all) are really judgmental people who will kick you while you are down.

Anonymous said...

We were a Christian nation until being politically correct became more important than realizing our beginning and electing liars and cowards. We need to take this country back and stop worrying about whose toes we will be stepping on when regaining our Christian nation!

Anonymous said...

If you would read the real story of this country you would know that the "founding fathers" used religion to control the people who were disturbed by the fact that even back then the country was ruled by a very small majority of wealthy men who arrived from Europe to claim this land as their own and killed the only natural citizens to accomplish the takeover. Yeah....this country really was founded by Christians. NOT

lmclain said...

12:06...it is not your total dedication to facts and science that I take issue with --- many people feel the same and that's okay.
What I object to is your smug denigration of people who have faith and your elitist intellectualism. Because YOU only accept "provable" facts doesn't mean that people who believe are any less intelligent or somehow intellectually inferior.
NO ONE I know thinks dove's blood heals skin conditions, but then again, scientists have postulated that most of our diseases and afflictions may have cures found in plants that we haven't studied or found yet (the Amazon rainforest comes to mind), so it may not be so far fetched to think there may be something in doves blood that DOES affect some skin conditions. Do you have any studies proving otherwise or do you just ridicule that which you can't prove?
I believe God created man --- with a brain and free will, hence Hitler and the cure for polio.
While we are on the subject of proof, answer the question I posed --- did the disciples, whose existence has been well documented in historical writings, make up what you probably consider to be one of the greatest hoaxes of all time? To what end? How did they gain, unless being beheaded and crucified for what they SAID was their goal? What did they do that for?? Can you provide a REASONABLE explanation???
Faith is something you will likely never understand, but it doesn't mean it is invalid, nor does it mean those of faith are stupid or deceived. Far from it.
And I would challenge your statement that people don't act morally because of some deity. THAT would be a an assumption. A THEORY postulated by a scientist trying to explain human behavior, but NOT a factual statement.
Millions of people believe, as I do, that we ARE held accountable for what we do. And behave accordingly. YOU put the "lets all get along for society's sake" spin on it. which, again, is just a theory and nothing more
The "pray for healing" thing you mentioned is also a weak argument. No one I know EVER decided to pray instead of going to the doctor, but YOU would have a hard time explaining the many DOCUMENTED cases (use the Internet & look it up) of people in Stage V terminal cancer who (miraculously) got up from their bed totally cancer free. Overnight. People prayed and SOMETHING happened. Because you can't find or give an explanation for that, does that mean it didn't happen?
Do you believe in evolution?? I ask because there is no PROOF of it. AND it violates the law of "entropy", which states that EVERYTHING you can think of goes from order to chaos. Anything and everything. And it is undisputed as a scientific principle. But somehow, someway, chemicals ORGANIZED themselves and somehow DUPLICATED themselves into becoming ever increasingly COMPLEX organisms? That's a BELIEF and a questionable one, too.
There are a LOT of holes in the "evolution" theory. I would love to point them out, but its a long list. Wings, hormones, proteins, and DNA are just a few....
In short, believe what you will, but don't think you are superior to anyone because YOU require "proof" of everything. Admirable, but hardly superior to anyone.
Oh yeah -- please answer my question about the disciples.....

Anonymous said...

Well said, lmclain.
You're a real asset on this blog.. thanks for being here.

Anonymous said...

Imclain....excellent response.

Anonymous said...

More profound than most realize.

Anonymous said...

8:50 Eloquuently put. Thank you.

Anonymous said...

Something happens to real Christians when they accept Jesus as the Christ and personal Savior. It's an awakening of something inside us--our spiritual side. And as we begin to read and study God's written word God reveals truths to us and directs us to go and do things to help others, whether physically or spiritually. I have been shown things in the Spirit and been led to people in ways I cannot explain. It's happened enough times that I know it's not natural. It's much deeper. It's difficult to explain to those who have not experienced it-- the spiritual awakening. And without it, God's wisdom is foolishness to men, as His Word says.

Anonymous said...

Debating with a theist is like playing chess with a pidgeon. It will knock over the pieces and poop on the board, then fly back to its flock and cry victory. Seriously, why bother?

Anonymous said...

And WHO created the aliens?

Anonymous said...

Man's wisdom is foolishness to God.

Anonymous said...

Probably.